The epic tales of Corn Pop’s young companion (POTUS46 complaint department)

[mgil]

Since economic policy to move manufacturing and such back to the USA is a non-starter due to price increases that would come from it(or subsidies, which are just price increases assuming taxes have to be raised to support them), maybe we could do smaller subsidies to encourage manufacturing to move to friendlier countries? Or where the human rights abuses are more in line with capitalism, like low wages and terrible working conditions rather than genocide and slavery?

While a bit tongue in cheek, one is far better than the other.

I also know we like to throw capitalism under the bus here, but consumerism is more of the problem, I think.

[GrainsAndGains]

After what's happened over the last few years with the Uyghur genocide I'll never wonder how the rest of the world sat by and allowed the Holocaust to happen ever again.

And what exactly would you have the US do? Go to War with China? Trade war (that has gone swimmingly!)? Economic sanctions (Iran is about to crumble at ANY moment) that the US could not possibly enforce against China?

What effective policy do you suggest the US take that isn't some kind of moral grand standing and doesn't put us on a one way trip to war in Asia?

I guess at the end of the day, when discussing the Uyghurs or the dozens of other peoples that are being killed and exploited across the globe, how many US lives is it worth for the US to do 'something'? Because in the end, that is what we are discussing. It is real easy for those of us that won't be boots on ground to call for action. Public admonishment is about all we have.

A war with China would only put a multitrillion dollar hole in the world's economy, get a ton of Americans killed, and probably not even save the Uyghurs anyway, so definitely no military action.

Multilateral economic pressure could work, but we'd have to have the EU on board at least. Additionally, it would require sacrifice, and since we can't even get people to wear masks to save Americans it's difficult to imagine people here tolerating lifestyle changes to save Muslims in China.

[mbasic]

save Muslims in China.

maybe .... ummmm .... like ..... their Muslim brethren should step in from the rest of the world

[Hardartery]

Their eventual efforts in the World Wars could be arguably good for things in the long run.

Time will tell, time will tell.

The Weimar Republic arrangement is arguably a main driver in the problems that helped bring about the Nazi party and bring Hitler to power, which is the main driver behind the advent of the Second World War, so millions od people dying could be easily considered a price paid to clean up an unnecessary mess. Just because the Allies won both times doesn't mean it was rightful interference or that any of it was handled well. You could make the argument that the interference caused a much bigger problem than it solved and resulted in millions of unnecessary deaths. Just sayin'.

[aurelius]

The Weimar Republic arrangement is arguably a main driver in the problems that helped bring about the Nazi party and bring Hitler to power, which is the main driver behind the advent of the Second World War, so millions od people dying could be easily considered a price paid to clean up an unnecessary mess. Just because the Allies won both times doesn't mean it was rightful interference or that any of it was handled well. You could make the argument that the interference caused a much bigger problem than it solved and resulted in millions of unnecessary deaths. Just sayin'.

Yikes. You have a really bad take on history. Focusing just on WW2 (as the US was a bit player in WW1), the US was not 'responsible' for the rise of the Third Reich. By the time the US did get involved, the Third Reich had gone full super villain. I'm 100% positive the world is a better place because the US chose to intervene in Europe in WW2 to defeat the Nazis. Imperial Japan was not a nice guy. They were actively engaged in a brutal war of conquest in China and portions of Asia when the US intervened in Pacific. I think any reading of history that does not come to that conclusion US intervention in WW2 was a 'good' thing is missing MANY salient, important facts.

I will agree that US foreign policy has been imperialistic and created more problems than it solved Post WW2. But don't ignore what it HAS gotten right. The USSR 100% would have swallowed Europe if not for the US. That is a big win. I guess you could make some round about argument that Europeans being under Nazi or Communist control would not have been so bad...I leave you to that!

And it is interesting that you seem to be excluding A LOT of US foreign policy post-WW2. The US is instrumental, as in these things would not exist or be substantially funded; for the UN, WHO, World Bank, WTO, and on and on and on. The US has impacted the global economy for the better in a variety ways. Even the infamous third world 'sweat shops' are good for the economies they exist in. They create jobs, whole cloth, that generally pay 2-3 times the daily average wage and hire segments of the population that are discriminated against (women and minorities). More than one country has started as a third world country with sweat shops as their starting point and used the influx of wealth to move on to better things. See Asian Tigers.

[Hanley]

You could make the argument that the interference caused a much bigger problem than it solved and resulted in millions of unnecessary deaths. Just sayin'.

You can argue anything you want, really. But, I'll just look at my screen funny and mouth "wtf" and disengage.

[aurelius]

Multilateral economic pressure could work, but we'd have to have the EU on board at least. Additionally, it would require sacrifice, and since we can't even get people to wear masks to save Americans it's difficult to imagine people here tolerating lifestyle changes to save Muslims in China.

This is kind of my point. 'multi-lateral' economic pressure requires other partners to join in. China is 'too big to fail'. You won't get Europe, any majority in Asia, the Middle East, Africa, or Russia to join in on a some kind of global pressure on China.

If the US wanted to get serious about China, we'd just stop exporting food (war option) or place tariffs on all food to China (economic war option). China 100% depends on the US for it's 1.5 billion people to eat everyday. If the US want to 'do something' about China, we got the tool in the toolbox.

If you look at China and how the Communist Party has controlled information and education, they have created a bunch of zealots that believe with religious fervor in China's right to be the preeminent global power. Just try to talk to someone that is Chinese about Taiwan. YIKES. China is a very real problem to the free world. I care little for American Hegemony but the free world as we know it China would remake for the worse. The US does need a comprehensive plan to address China. Similar to how the US had a comprehensive plan to address the USSR. But I don't believe virtue signaling at China to be a particularly productive plan.

[aurelius]

You can argue anything you want, really. But, I'll just look at my screen funny and mouth "wtf" and disengage.

Dammit. This is a way better response.

[JonA]

If the US wanted to get serious about China, we'd just stop exporting food (war option) or place tariffs on all food to China (economic war option).

China already did this to themselves.

[Hardartery]

The Weimar Republic arrangement is arguably a main driver in the problems that helped bring about the Nazi party and bring Hitler to power, which is the main driver behind the advent of the Second World War, so millions od people dying could be easily considered a price paid to clean up an unnecessary mess. Just because the Allies won both times doesn't mean it was rightful interference or that any of it was handled well. You could make the argument that the interference caused a much bigger problem than it solved and resulted in millions of unnecessary deaths. Just sayin'.

Yikes. You have a really bad take on history. Focusing just on WW2 (as the US was a bit player in WW1), the US was not 'responsible' for the rise of the Third Reich. By the time the US did get involved, the Third Reich had gone full super villain. I'm 100% positive the world is a better place because the US chose to intervene in Europe in WW2 to defeat the Nazis. Imperial Japan was not a nice guy. They were actively engaged in a brutal war of conquest in China and portions of Asia when the US intervened in Pacific. I think any reading of history that does not come to that conclusion US intervention in WW2 was a 'good' thing is missing MANY salient, important facts.

I will agree that US foreign policy has been imperialistic and created more problems than it solved Post WW2. But don't ignore what it HAS gotten right. The USSR 100% would have swallowed Europe if not for the US. That is a big win. I guess you could make some round about argument that Europeans being under Nazi or Communist control would not have been so bad...I leave you to that!

And it is interesting that you seem to be excluding A LOT of US foreign policy post-WW2. The US is instrumental, as in these things would not exist or be substantially funded; for the UN, WHO, World Bank, WTO, and on and on and on. The US has impacted the global economy for the better in a variety ways. Even the infamous third world 'sweat shops' are good for the economies they exist in. They create jobs, whole cloth, that generally pay 2-3 times the daily average wage and hire segments of the population that are discriminated against (women and minorities). More than one country has started as a third world country with sweat shops as their starting point and used the influx of wealth to move on to better things. See Asian Tigers.

The Marshall plan had a lot to do with the rise of the Nazi party, which was also what formed the Weimar Republic. The economic pounding of post WW1 Germany is what that plan accomplished and gave rise to the sentiments that formed and fed that whole thing. The "Value" of the UN, WHO, World Bank, WTO and on and on is not a real value for non-Western countries. These institutions have overseen the extension of poverty and forced destructive policy on many of these so-called Third World countries for their own benefit. To believe that they have been positive forces for these countries is to reveal that you don't actually know anything about those countries or what has happened in them. The policies of the World Bank in particular have been devastating to the economies of several of these countries. Sweat shops do not pay good wages. If you think that they do, you are igorant. There are several here in Managua. They pay less than a living wage for THIS country, you certainly could not support a family on a single income from one of them and they demand 6 days a week of work and often require 10 hour days - all for the same singular salary. They also like to cut wages if there is a slow week, as in the employees suffer the lowered work volume cost nd not the company. This is common practice in thses countries.
The US supportd the dictatorship that preceded the current government here, as it did similarly in many of these countries, because it served business and trade purposes. It was not a good regime for the people and was gulity of worse human rights abuses than current China. They also supported the Contras, as you may remember the Iran-Contra affair and Oliver North. The Contras were supported to facilitate quite a pile of illegal activity and the ends of the sitting US government of the time, it wasn't about helping anybody. If you do a little digging you will find nothing but more of the same. The idea that any of this is done for the benefit of others is laughable and naive. Biden identifying it as lip service to placate the people while continuing on as they want is actually the more realistic and truthful thing.

[Hardartery]

You could make the argument that the interference caused a much bigger problem than it solved and resulted in millions of unnecessary deaths. Just sayin'.

You can argue anything you want, really. But, I'll just look at my screen funny and mouth "wtf" and disengage.

And thus is born another Fox watcher.

[Hanley]

You could make the argument that the interference caused a much bigger problem than it solved and resulted in millions of unnecessary deaths. Just sayin'.

You can argue anything you want, really. But, I'll just look at my screen funny and mouth "wtf" and disengage.

And thus is born another Fox watcher.

Uh, nope.

[aurelius]

The Marshall plan had a lot to do with the rise of the Nazi party

Full Stop. You don't know the fuck you are talking about. I'm gonna leave you to it.

[aurelius]

China already did this to themselves.

Kind of. Trump admin deserves credit for changing the narrative on China. That is a real achievement that I hope the Biden admin continues. China cannot be allowed to continue its current path.

But lacking a comprehensive economic and foreign policy; the willy nilly, tit for tat tariffs we saw implemented lacked the impact needed to make change.

[mgil]

And thus is born another Fox watcher.

I dunno what this means nowadays.

[mgil]

The Marshall plan had a lot to do with the rise of the Nazi party

Full Stop. You don't know the fuck you are talking about. I'm gonna leave you to it.

The Red Skull has a time machine, bro.

[Hanley]

And thus is born another Fox watcher.

I dunno what this means nowadays.

If you don't want to debate hardartery's half-baked contrarian positions, you are born a Fox Watcher.

#logic

[5hout]

The Marshall plan had a lot to do with the rise of the Nazi party

[/quote]

Would you care to elaborate on this? Do you mean some variation of "the shape of the Marshall plan was set by a desire to prevent NAZI Germany 2.0, by rebuilding a new, less-violent Germany instead of engaging in punishment along the lines of the Treaty of Versailles"?

[JonA]

China already did this to themselves.

Kind of.

"Kind of"? China literally imposed import tariffs on food and agriculture products from the US in response to Trump's tariffs.

[SnakePlissken]

Trump admin deserves credit for changing the narrative on China. That is a real achievement that I hope the Biden admin continues. China cannot be allowed to continue its current path.

He won't, there's a reason one of his nicknames is Beijing Biden.