How MUCH Casein is Needed for Pre-Bedtime Shake?

[Inverstone]

I've done tons of reading and perused labels on lots of Casein Protein powders but have never found the amount of casein that is needed to ensure protein synthesis will be carried out over the night long "fasting" period? Casein isn't even given/measured on any of the labels...

I have been using 1/8 cup of 2% milk (usually 2%) with 50 grams (2 scoops) of Whey Isolate.
I'd rather not buy Casein Whey because the rest of the day/evening I'm sold on Isolates.

Anyone here know of a study link or evidence based actual amount of Casein that is needed for this? Think 1/8 cup of milk is enough with the 50 grams of isolate?
Thanks.

[dw]

I don't read the studies but I listen to the people who do and the consensus these days seems to be that there is no need to micromanage protein timing within reasonable limits, because your digestive system can keep protein boluses in reserve for a guess a pretty long span of hours?

Something like that.

[Culican]

IAnyone here know of a study link or evidence based actual amount of Casein that is needed for this? Think 1/8 cup of milk is enough with the 50 grams of isolate?
Thanks.

Here's something here, mentions 40g and also 20-40g before bed.

The Impact of Pre-sleep Protein Ingestion on the Skeletal Muscle Adaptive Response to Exercise in Humans: An Update
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6415027/

If you don't want to use casein powder how about low or no fat cottage cheese, that's almost pure casein.

Edit: I don't do it because I eat dinner fairly late so there is already a bolus of slowly digesting protein (some type of meat) in my digestive tract when I go to bed.

[TimK]

I've done tons of reading and perused labels on lots of Casein Protein powders but have never found the amount of casein that is needed to ensure protein synthesis will be carried out over the night long "fasting" period? Casein isn't even given/measured on any of the labels...

I have been using 1/8 cup of 2% milk (usually 2%) with 50 grams (2 scoops) of Whey Isolate.
I'd rather not buy Casein Whey because the rest of the day/evening I'm sold on Isolates.

Anyone here know of a study link or evidence based actual amount of Casein that is needed for this? Think 1/8 cup of milk is enough with the 50 grams of isolate?
Thanks.

Casein is a type of protein, like whey. Both come from milk. The labels don't list an amount because if it's "casein protein" then all the protein comes from casein, just like in whey protein it all comes from whey.

Whey is fast digesting and casein is slow digesting which is why people take it before bed. In reality I doubt that it makes an appreciable difference.

[Inverstone]

Culican, thanks for the studies link. I have scanned it while eating dinner, but will dig in more later. What I'm not seeing (so far) or "getting" is if I chose to use a scoop of 25 grams of Casein Whey I'd be getting 25 grams of casein basically...
If I want to add a similar amount of casein to isolate shakes would I then need to add 25 grams of milk or cottage cheese or a much lesser amount in relation to the isolate?

(With a quick read through) it seemed that Casein Protein powder was used as opposed to isolate with your own casein ingredient added. That's the amount/quantity I'm specifically asking about. How much casein "ingredient" would I need to add to arrive at the same amount or even a useful amount to make any difference.

I use bedtime shake/puddings as my last of 5 daily meals. The 1/8 cup of milk in the isolate has seemed to put some (or maintain) muscle on me at 69 years of youth.

Thanks again.

[Inverstone]

After several searches, I finally found that there are approx. 12-13 grams of casein in the 1/8 c. of milk, so that's nearing 1/3 of the 50 grams of whey isolate so that gives me something "concrete" to work with. Thanks again for the study which I read in detail this a.m. Culican.

[TimK]

I think you’re still misunderstanding something... what exactly is the product you keep referring to as “casein whey”?

[Inverstone]

Tim (by the way, I greatly enjoy your YouTube home gym videos),
Amazon and other vendors sell what is labeled Casein Whey as opposed to Whey Isolate.
Here is just one example:

It's been my understanding that these contain more casein or are more "casein based" than isolates. Is this incorrect?

So... I wondered if my 1/8 cup of milk (80-90% casein/ 12 grams of casein) would approximate the level in these products. Hope that clarifies things?
Thanks for your input. Cheers.

[TimK]

Tim (by the way, I greatly enjoy your YouTube home gym videos),
Amazon and other vendors sell what is labeled Casein Whey as opposed to Whey Isolate.
Here is just one example:

It's been my understanding that these contain more casein or are more "casein based" than isolates. Is this incorrect?

So... I wondered if my 1/8 cup of milk (80-90% casein/ 12 grams of casein) would approximate the level in these products. Hope that clarifies things?
Thanks for your input. Cheers.

I don't see the word "Whey" in the product description though. AFAIK all the protein in that product is from casein and therefore it would be slow-digesting.

Also, thanks, I keep meaning to make some more videos but I never seem to find the time. The editing is a big roadblock for me as I'm not very proficient with the software...

[TimK]

Also, a cup of milk only has 8 grams of protein to begin with, so 1/8 cup would only have one gram of protein.

[Inverstone]

Via Google search:
"The proteins in milk are predominantly casein-based, with casein making up between 75 percent and 85 percent of the protein found in the beverage. An average 1-cup serving of reduced-fat, 2-percent milk contains just over 8 grams of protein, meaning that you get around 6 to 7 grams of casein per cup."

One of the Casein Whey Powder brands (I can't seem to find that link again) stated the 12 grams of casein per 1/8 c. Hence my confusion. This doesn't jive with the above obviously...


TO rephrase my question: In whey isolate powders has casein been completely removed in the isolation process as opposed to powders marketed at "Casein Whey"?

[Wilhelm]

1/4 cup of (whole milk) cottage cheese has 7 grams protein.

"Cottage cheese is more protein-dense than milk, with 1 cup containing almost 27 grams of protein, giving it a higher casein content than you'd get in milk. The protein content of creamed cottage cheese will be lower, however, as the fat content is ratcheted up to 4 percent, thus reducing the protein content a little."

Not seeing any casein in isolate here -

[Wilhelm]

Myself, i think it is healthful to give things a rest when you sleep.
Other processes take place when mTOR isn't highly activated.
Autophagy being one.
I take in my last nutrients of the day hours before sleep.

Fwiw, i think Nuckols and Trexler basically landed on pre sleep protein being one of those pretty marginally "beneficial" to growth and performance things.

[lheugh]

The sparse evidence looking into the question of whether casein protein itself is beneficial pre-bedtime in the context of resistance training and a suitable total daily protein intake (1.6g-2.2g/kg) doesn't seem to lean in its favour and if it does, it isn't measurable. Moreover, the question merits longitudinal studies (those lasting weeks and months) and the two I'm familiar with don't suggest it imparts any special benefit in light of overall daily protein intake.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28515842/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29764464/

[Renascent]

One of the Casein Whey Powder brands (I can't seem to find that link again) stated the 12 grams of casein per 1/8 c. Hence my confusion. This doesn't jive with the above obviously...

Not sure what this means exactly (are they advertising 96 grams of protein for a cup-size shake? Sounds way too good to be true). I use the ON version you included in one of your posts.

As Tim said, a cup of whole milk is usually about 8 grams of protein. The Optimum Nutrition brand of casein is going to be 23 grams of protein per scoop. So, 31 grams total if you mix a scoop with a single cup of milk.

As for the effects, visually I think I can tell whenever I slack off on the casein (I use both casein and whey on a daily basis), though, as was stated above, I'm not sure if the results are truly measurable.

One thing I can guarantee is you'll start every morning with a good shit if you stick with a casein routine. Otherwise, I would just try a reputable brand and see if you like it. I wouldn't give it too much thought beyond that.

[Brackish]

One of the Casein Whey Powder brands (I can't seem to find that link again) stated the 12 grams of casein per 1/8 c. Hence my confusion. This doesn't jive with the above obviously...

Not sure what this means exactly (are they advertising 96 grams of protein for a cup-size shake? Sounds way too good to be true). I use the ON version you included in one of your posts.

As Tim said, a cup of whole milk is usually about 8 grams of protein. The Optimum Nutrition brand of casein is going to be 23 grams of protein per scoop. So, 31 grams total if you mix a scoop with a single cup of milk.

As for the effects, visually I think I can tell whenever I slack off on the casein (I use both casein and whey on a daily basis), though, as was stated above, I'm not sure if the results are truly measurable.

One thing I can guarantee is you'll start every morning with a good shit if you stick with a casein routine. Otherwise, I would just try a reputable brand and see if you like it. I wouldn't give it too much thought beyond that.

I recently switched over to Fairlife (more expensive) for that reason. It contains 13g of protein/cup vs. the 8 you find in "standard" milk.

[Inverstone]

I'll check out the Fairlife, thanks.

[Renascent]

One of the Casein Whey Powder brands (I can't seem to find that link again) stated the 12 grams of casein per 1/8 c. Hence my confusion. This doesn't jive with the above obviously...

Not sure what this means exactly (are they advertising 96 grams of protein for a cup-size shake? Sounds way too good to be true). I use the ON version you included in one of your posts.

As Tim said, a cup of whole milk is usually about 8 grams of protein. The Optimum Nutrition brand of casein is going to be 23 grams of protein per scoop. So, 31 grams total if you mix a scoop with a single cup of milk.

As for the effects, visually I think I can tell whenever I slack off on the casein (I use both casein and whey on a daily basis), though, as was stated above, I'm not sure if the results are truly measurable.

One thing I can guarantee is you'll start every morning with a good shit if you stick with a casein routine. Otherwise, I would just try a reputable brand and see if you like it. I wouldn't give it too much thought beyond that.

I recently switched over to Fairlife (more expensive) for that reason. It contains 13g of protein/cup vs. the 8 you find in "standard" milk.

I'm going to consider this as well. I'm worried that my kid is going to be an asshole, and suddenly start drinking a shitload of milk for the sake of novelty.

[Brackish]

One of the Casein Whey Powder brands (I can't seem to find that link again) stated the 12 grams of casein per 1/8 c. Hence my confusion. This doesn't jive with the above obviously...

Not sure what this means exactly (are they advertising 96 grams of protein for a cup-size shake? Sounds way too good to be true). I use the ON version you included in one of your posts.

As Tim said, a cup of whole milk is usually about 8 grams of protein. The Optimum Nutrition brand of casein is going to be 23 grams of protein per scoop. So, 31 grams total if you mix a scoop with a single cup of milk.

As for the effects, visually I think I can tell whenever I slack off on the casein (I use both casein and whey on a daily basis), though, as was stated above, I'm not sure if the results are truly measurable.

One thing I can guarantee is you'll start every morning with a good shit if you stick with a casein routine. Otherwise, I would just try a reputable brand and see if you like it. I wouldn't give it too much thought beyond that.

I recently switched over to Fairlife (more expensive) for that reason. It contains 13g of protein/cup vs. the 8 you find in "standard" milk.

I'm going to consider this as well. I'm worried that my kid is going to be an asshole, and suddenly start drinking a shitload of milk for the sake of novelty.

Kids get their own milk. Fairlife is miiiiiine...

[mouse]

One of the Casein Whey Powder brands (I can't seem to find that link again) stated the 12 grams of casein per 1/8 c. Hence my confusion. This doesn't jive with the above obviously...

Not sure what this means exactly (are they advertising 96 grams of protein for a cup-size shake? Sounds way too good to be true). I use the ON version you included in one of your posts.

As Tim said, a cup of whole milk is usually about 8 grams of protein. The Optimum Nutrition brand of casein is going to be 23 grams of protein per scoop. So, 31 grams total if you mix a scoop with a single cup of milk.

As for the effects, visually I think I can tell whenever I slack off on the casein (I use both casein and whey on a daily basis), though, as was stated above, I'm not sure if the results are truly measurable.

One thing I can guarantee is you'll start every morning with a good shit if you stick with a casein routine. Otherwise, I would just try a reputable brand and see if you like it. I wouldn't give it too much thought beyond that.

I recently switched over to Fairlife (more expensive) for that reason. It contains 13g of protein/cup vs. the 8 you find in "standard" milk.

I'm going to consider this as well. I'm worried that my kid is going to be an asshole, and suddenly start drinking a shitload of milk for the sake of novelty.

Kids get their own milk. Fairlife is miiiiiine...

Things get tense at our house when there is a bottle of Fairlife choccy milk in the fridge...