Power Clean

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Hardartery
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Power Clean

#1

Post by Hardartery » Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:52 pm

I know there are some guys on here that know a thing or two about Cleans and form. Mine are generally a bastard movement powered by brute force and force of will. No grace, no beauty. And it is an automatic reflex to switch to Continental if I don't pull high enough to make the PC. I am being loose with terminology here, I understand that purists would not call what I do a Power Clean, but rather a "Muscle" Clean. So, here is one of several videos I stuck on Youtube. It is poorly framed, poorly lit, and generally awful cinematogrophy, so tell me what angles and framing would be better for criticism for future recording.



*** I clipped the right knee in this video, which I don't think is visible.

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Re: Power Clean

#2

Post by Renascent » Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:06 pm

Hardartery wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:52 pm I know there are some guys on here that know a thing or two about Cleans and form. Mine are generally a bastard movement powered by brute force and force of will. No grace, no beauty. And it is an automatic reflex to switch to Continental if I don't pull high enough to make the PC. I am being loose with terminology here, I understand that purists would not call what I do a Power Clean, but rather a "Muscle" Clean. So, here is one of several videos I stuck on Youtube. It is poorly framed, poorly lit, and generally awful cinematogrophy, so tell me what angles and framing would be better for criticism for future recording.



*** I clipped the right knee in this video, which I don't think is visible.
Paging @mgil, @mbasic, @testiclaw...

All I got is the forearms...

I never trained the PC much as its own separate movement; I mostly used it to avoid tying up a rack in the gym while learning to overhead press, back when my top set was 95 lbs. But catching the clean with vertical forearms eventually started to bother my wrists and elbows. Obviously, you've got much larger bones than I do, but yeah. More experienced folks likely have some pointers on how to get your elbows/shoulders in a more optimal position to avoid possibly pissing off those joints.

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Re: Power Clean

#3

Post by mbasic » Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:14 am

As far as the pull, I think you are just try to row it up while you are still pulling with the legs/back ...
Some people will display early arm bend/elbow bend ... and then there is actively rowing it up....you are doing the later still.
So "straight arms" until the extension of the legs and torso is done.

-----------------

@Renascent

If you are going to in an overhead press afterwards (after the clean) the vertical forearm catch might be the best way to catch it if that's where you press from. This will result in a soft looking rack position, but as long as you are "catching" it in the heel/bottom of your palms you are OK.
Its not going to look as pretty or correct as slamming the bar all the way into a front-squat rack.
Of course, you don't want to catch it toward your fingers, with wrist flexion, with vertical forearms, NOT resting on the delts.
Problem is if you got a real decent OHP, your power clean is going to have to be pretty good to do this weird OHP-Ready-front rack.

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Re: Power Clean

#4

Post by Renascent » Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:40 am

mbasic wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:14 amIf you are going to in an overhead press afterwards (after the clean) the vertical forearm catch might be the best way to catch it if that's where you press from. This will result in a soft looking rack position, but as long as you are "catching" it in the heel/bottom of your palms you are OK.
Its not going to look as pretty or correct as slamming the bar all the way into a front-squat rack.
Of course, you don't want to catch it toward your fingers, with wrist flexion, with vertical forearms, NOT resting on the delts.
Problem is if you got a real decent OHP, your power clean is going to have to be pretty good to do this weird OHP-Ready-front rack.
Thanks!

As best as I can remember, I think I was keeping/receiving the bar in the heel of the palm, but not really bothering to even attempt a "proper" rack position, out of ignorance.

It might've been from the StrongLifts guy, but I got the message about vertical forearms dangers, and wondered if that was the cause of discomfort. In hindsight, maybe it was the frequency.

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Re: Power Clean

#5

Post by Hardartery » Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:43 am

mbasic wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:14 am As far as the pull, I think you are just try to row it up while you are still pulling with the legs/back ...
Some people will display early arm bend/elbow bend ... and then there is actively rowing it up....you are doing the later still.
So "straight arms" until the extension of the legs and torso is done.

-----------------

@Renascent

If you are going to in an overhead press afterwards (after the clean) the vertical forearm catch might be the best way to catch it if that's where you press from. This will result in a soft looking rack position, but as long as you are "catching" it in the heel/bottom of your palms you are OK.
Its not going to look as pretty or correct as slamming the bar all the way into a front-squat rack.
Of course, you don't want to catch it toward your fingers, with wrist flexion, with vertical forearms, NOT resting on the delts.
Problem is if you got a real decent OHP, your power clean is going to have to be pretty good to do this weird OHP-Ready-front rack.
I may well be rowing it a little. It doesn't feel like it, but that doesn't mean that I'm not doing it. The bar is racked on my delts at the top, it takes me 20 minutes at the beginning of the workout to get my shoulders loose enough to do that - the problems of getting older I think. My OHP is off from where I want it by roughly a plate, I am hoping to push it to AT LEAST around 300 again by the time Static Monsters rolls around next year. I know that my knees lock on the pull and there is almost never a knee dip of any kind for the catch, a habit I have never managed to fix. I have monkey arms, which is also a problem on the Clean. I understand that I would realistically need a wider grip on the pull to move the bar up to the correct biomechanical height to hit all the points of the pull correctly, but I don't want to be using a different grip width than I will be using with a Log for the Clean or Press. Long arms are good for DL, but a mountain of complication for Press.

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Re: Power Clean

#6

Post by mbasic » Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:28 am

Renascent wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:40 am
mbasic wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:14 amIf you are going to in an overhead press afterwards (after the clean) the vertical forearm catch might be the best way to catch it if that's where you press from. This will result in a soft looking rack position, but as long as you are "catching" it in the heel/bottom of your palms you are OK.
Its not going to look as pretty or correct as slamming the bar all the way into a front-squat rack.
Of course, you don't want to catch it toward your fingers, with wrist flexion, with vertical forearms, NOT resting on the delts.
Problem is if you got a real decent OHP, your power clean is going to have to be pretty good to do this weird OHP-Ready-front rack.
Thanks!

As best as I can remember, I think I was keeping/receiving the bar in the heel of the palm, but not really bothering to even attempt a "proper" rack position, out of ignorance.

It might've been from the StrongLifts guy, but I got the message about vertical forearms dangers, and wondered if that was the cause of discomfort. In hindsight, maybe it was the frequency.
Its just depends on the context.
And it depends more on how the "wrist" receives the bar.

You'll see CrossfittersTM power clean a barbell .... catch it on the delts, elbows kinda up, and then press it from there ..... that's not an optimal press start. If you are doing a hip-jerk-classic-olympic-press-3.0 ... you can get away with that. But a strict or strongman press, you better have it in a position to can generate power with the arms right from the get go. That usually means elbows down a bit.

Klokov's cleans (comp CJ) were naturally more elbows down than most people. His rack was def. not super duper elbows up.
(showing this an example of elbows down, but yet his wrists look like they're in a horrible position...not a guy to really emulate)



clean



stupid crossfitter pressing from a front-squat rack (fingers/wrists)

check out these lady crossfitters. They're in a hybrid front squat/press grip .... some are using hookgrip....wrists extremely bent, elbows starting off fully flexed/collapsed to the max. Funny too, that they're taking from the stands (not cleaning it).
I'm not expert, but I'm sure they could do better from with conventional OHP/press starting position.
(I sure this is about where they jerk from ...if they were doing CnJ)


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Re: Power Clean

#7

Post by mgil » Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:43 am

@Hardartery, have you done much practice from the hang position?

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Re: Power Clean

#8

Post by Hardartery » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:40 pm

mgil wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:43 am @Hardartery, have you done much practice from the hang position?
Not recently. I have been spending a lot of time trying to free up my shoulders for the press, and so I can Overhead Squat something useful. What do you suggest? My Clean has always been good by Strongman metrics, but technically crap by non-Strongman standards. I waste a lot of energy on it that is better saved for the press.

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Re: Power Clean

#9

Post by Hardartery » Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:22 pm



Better angle, worse lighting, messing around today.
I accidentally deleted the first video, from which I learned that my hips were really high. I was making a conscious effort to drop the hips in this set.

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Re: Power Clean

#10

Post by mgil » Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:54 pm

Hardartery wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:40 pm
mgil wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:43 am Hardartery, have you done much practice from the hang position?
Not recently. I have been spending a lot of time trying to free up my shoulders for the press, and so I can Overhead Squat something useful. What do you suggest? My Clean has always been good by Strongman metrics, but technically crap by non-Strongman standards. I waste a lot of energy on it that is better saved for the press.
I was just thinking that some work from the hang position and trying to really work on exploding from there into the rack might clean some things up for you

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Re: Power Clean

#11

Post by Hardartery » Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:14 pm

mgil wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:54 pm
Hardartery wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:40 pm
mgil wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:43 am Hardartery, have you done much practice from the hang position?
Not recently. I have been spending a lot of time trying to free up my shoulders for the press, and so I can Overhead Squat something useful. What do you suggest? My Clean has always been good by Strongman metrics, but technically crap by non-Strongman standards. I waste a lot of energy on it that is better saved for the press.
I was just thinking that some work from the hang position and trying to really work on exploding from there into the rack might clean some things up for you
I will work some of those in. I am totally surprised with how much I was NOT sitting down to initiate the pull, and how different it feels when I do.

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Re: Power Clean

#12

Post by mgil » Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:21 pm

Absolutely, the high hips for cleans is a huge momentum killer. Certain coaches can say what they want, but in practice good lifters have dynamic hips in the clean.

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Re: Power Clean

#13

Post by chrisd » Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:09 am

Hardartery wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:22 pm

Better angle, worse lighting, messing around today.
I accidentally deleted the first video, from which I learned that my hips were really high. I was making a conscious effort to drop the hips in this set.
Looks like you have a "mute hip" in the catch. You hip thrust to get the bar going up, which it does. Your hips stay forward as you catch, which is less good.

Still the bar went up and you caught it.

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Re: Power Clean

#14

Post by Hardartery » Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:19 pm

chrisd wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:09 am
Looks like you have a "mute hip" in the catch. You hip thrust to get the bar going up, which it does. Your hips stay forward as you catch, which is less good.

Still the bar went up and you caught it.
I did not know what it was called, but I absolutely have that. I lock up during the pull and stay that way, which is bad. I would like to fix that. Any suggestions? I don't want to have my limit be brute force, it might be cool to have some kind of technique.

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Re: Power Clean

#15

Post by Cellist » Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:11 pm

Hardartery wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:19 pm
chrisd wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:09 am
Looks like you have a "mute hip" in the catch. You hip thrust to get the bar going up, which it does. Your hips stay forward as you catch, which is less good.

Still the bar went up and you caught it.
I did not know what it was called, but I absolutely have that. I lock up during the pull and stay that way, which is bad. I would like to fix that. Any suggestions? I don't want to have my limit be brute force, it might be cool to have some kind of technique.
Lift your feet and pull yourself down against the bar aggressively as you turn your elbows around the bar quickly to the rack position. Try starting from just above the knee.

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Re: Power Clean

#16

Post by Hardartery » Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:43 pm

Cellist wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:11 pm
Hardartery wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:19 pm
chrisd wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:09 am
Looks like you have a "mute hip" in the catch. You hip thrust to get the bar going up, which it does. Your hips stay forward as you catch, which is less good.

Still the bar went up and you caught it.
I did not know what it was called, but I absolutely have that. I lock up during the pull and stay that way, which is bad. I would like to fix that. Any suggestions? I don't want to have my limit be brute force, it might be cool to have some kind of technique.
Lift your feet and pull yourself down against the bar aggressively as you turn your elbows around the bar quickly to the rack position. Try starting from just above the knee.
Is that better from the hang, like @mgil suggested? Or not? I'm going to work it in, especially because it will be nice to have some light technique work as a break. I want to mention this somewhee, and I don't think that I have, when I dropped my hips for the pull my feet left the floor when I hit hip extension. that has literally never happened to me in all of the years that I have lifted - with any type of bar or implement. Sur[rised me so much I almost didn't catch the bar.

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Re: Power Clean

#17

Post by Cellist » Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:00 pm

Yeah, hang above the knee, ie. approximately the lower third of your thigh. That’s where your shoulders are still over the bar.

https://www.catalystathletics.com/artic ... eat-Small/

https://www.catalystathletics.com/exerc ... wer-Clean/

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Re: Power Clean

#18

Post by chrisd » Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:33 am

Hardartery wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:19 pm
chrisd wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:09 am
Looks like you have a "mute hip" in the catch. You hip thrust to get the bar going up, which it does. Your hips stay forward as you catch, which is less good.

Still the bar went up and you caught it.
I did not know what it was called, but I absolutely have that. I lock up during the pull and stay that way, which is bad. I would like to fix that. Any suggestions? I don't want to have my limit be brute force, it might be cool to have some kind of technique.
If I ever fix mine, I'll let you know. I lock up if I get near a limit weight. Instead of ducking under it, I'm still pulling up.

The cue that should work is to forcibly flex the hips as the elbows drive up. This lifts the feet and allows for the stamp.

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Re: Power Clean

#19

Post by Hardartery » Fri Dec 10, 2021 4:16 pm

All right. more technique abuse. I apologize for the lousy framing, I am getting a tripod device of some sort in the near future to use instead of an assortment of buckets and a spring collar.



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Re: Power Clean

#20

Post by Cellist » Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:00 am

If done well, muscle snatches are cleans are really good for improving the upper body mechanics in the turnover and keeping the bar in close. Lasha does them every workout and warmup, either from the hang or floor. When you get the bar up around the shoulder, you're leaning back by bending at the knee. Ideally, weightlifters maintain an extended knee in the muscle snatch and maybe overextend some at the hip. The same thing is going on in the clean: instead of the elbows turning around the bar, the bar makes an arc and you lean back at the knee. I know you said your grip width is dictated by the log implement, but with your size, I think you would have to put your hands further apart to get a decent rack position. I suppose it's just the same way lifting stones isn't going to let you get in perfect DL position.


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