Lifting belt service,life?

[Wilhelm]

I can only assume it will get worse over time.
I actually just now used some black duct tape and cut narrow pieces to go top and bottom of the pin.
Will for sure do that for meet day.
I don't need anything extra to think about on meet day.
Still gonna have to be aware of it though.
Just seems silly to have him send me another v1 though.

If it were me, i would wait for v2.
I mean, it bugs me knowing it's there, even though it doesn't seem like it's going to fall out anytime soon.
It doesn't need to protrude a lot to interefere with the lever closing though.

It never has yet, and it wasn't until this thread that i went follow up looking on IG and actually discovered which pin people were talking about, so i had never checked that one.

BUT, if you just plan on getting the v2 later, the belt will work just fine for you until then.
I got the PAL last summer and never noticed anything until today when i knew what to look for.

[Oldandfat]

Looks like I’m waiting until pal2.

[Allentown]

FWIW I have no idea which pin is an issue.
I also regularly use 5 different belts, so mine do not get the wear and tear that someone using a single belt for everything would get.

[Wilhelm]

FWIW I have no idea which pin is an issue.
I also regularly use 5 different belts, so mine do not get the wear and tear that someone using a single belt for everything would get.

The first one, red arrow.
The second one is already a rivet.
(I think that's a valeo belt pictured, btw.)

[Culican]

My belt is 13mm which is 2- 6.5mm pieces of leather glued and stitched together. The leather pieces have separated once, and are starting to do so one year after the local repair.

Back in ~2012 or so I bought a 13mm Elite FTS P2 belt. It looks identical to the 13mm Pioneer belt (including identical rivets) and was shipped from Texas so I am almost certain it was made by Pioneer. After I had had it less than 6 months the leather separated just as you describe. I used some glue (can't recall the exact type) and worked it in between the layers and it seemed to hold. I don't know whether it would hold long-term as I bought an Inzer about six months later. I have used the Inzer almost exclusively since then and it has held up fine. Every once in a while I try out the P2 again but the Inzer just feels better; the buckle on the P2 seems to dig in to me.

[Oldandfat]

My belt is 13mm which is 2- 6.5mm pieces of leather glued and stitched together. The leather pieces have separated once, and are starting to do so one year after the local repair.

Back in ~2012 or so I bought a 13mm Elite FTS P2 belt. It looks identical to the 13mm Pioneer belt (including identical rivets) and was shipped from Texas so I am almost certain it was made by Pioneer. After I had had it less than 6 months the leather separated just as you describe. I used some glue (can't recall the exact type) and worked it in between the layers and it seemed to hold. I don't know whether it would hold long-term as I bought an Inzer about six months later. I have used the Inzer almost exclusively since then and it has held up fine. Every once in a while I try out the P2 again but the Inzer just feels better; the buckle on the P2 seems to dig in to me.

Me, you, and Marrko are the only 3 I know of that have had pioneer issues. Maybe sometimes things go wrong?

Bad glue? Not enough glue?

[MarkKO]

My belt is 13mm which is 2- 6.5mm pieces of leather glued and stitched together. The leather pieces have separated once, and are starting to do so one year after the local repair.

Back in ~2012 or so I bought a 13mm Elite FTS P2 belt. It looks identical to the 13mm Pioneer belt (including identical rivets) and was shipped from Texas so I am almost certain it was made by Pioneer. After I had had it less than 6 months the leather separated just as you describe. I used some glue (can't recall the exact type) and worked it in between the layers and it seemed to hold. I don't know whether it would hold long-term as I bought an Inzer about six months later. I have used the Inzer almost exclusively since then and it has held up fine. Every once in a while I try out the P2 again but the Inzer just feels better; the buckle on the P2 seems to dig in to me.

Me, you, and Marrko are the only 3 I know of that have had pioneer issues. Maybe sometimes things go wrong?

Bad glue? Not enough glue?

I've heard it from a few other people outside here too. I'd be very curious to see what opinions would be if we got a cohort of people who bought Pioneer over five years ago; and then those who bought them three years ago; and a bunch who bought them within the last six months.

What I find odd is that the three of us have all had the same issue. I'm certain there are plenty more. My guess is a mix of cheap glue and poor QA.

[weisgarber]

I bought one of Rogue's Pioneer-made belts two years ago. It's a single piece of leather so I can't comment on the glue issue people are having, but I will say that the leather is much stiffer than other belts I've had in the past. One I have from Best Belts was more pliable out of the box than the Pioneer is after two years of use.

I do like the 1" adjustments for their "Pioneer cut", which is the main reason I bought it.

[James]

Bought a custom length 13mm belt from Titan years ago. Still in perfect shape. You can see where they spliced two belts together about a foot from the buckle and it's very clean and well done. Think I had to wait a couple months for it though.

[Oldandfat]

My belt is 13mm which is 2- 6.5mm pieces of leather glued and stitched together. The leather pieces have separated once, and are starting to do so one year after the local repair.

Back in ~2012 or so I bought a 13mm Elite FTS P2 belt. It looks identical to the 13mm Pioneer belt (including identical rivets) and was shipped from Texas so I am almost certain it was made by Pioneer. After I had had it less than 6 months the leather separated just as you describe. I used some glue (can't recall the exact type) and worked it in between the layers and it seemed to hold. I don't know whether it would hold long-term as I bought an Inzer about six months later. I have used the Inzer almost exclusively since then and it has held up fine. Every once in a while I try out the P2 again but the Inzer just feels better; the buckle on the P2 seems to dig in to me.

Me, you, and Marrko are the only 3 I know of that have had pioneer issues. Maybe sometimes things go wrong?

Bad glue? Not enough glue?

I've heard it from a few other people outside here too. I'd be very curious to see what opinions would be if we got a cohort of people who bought Pioneer over five years ago; and then those who bought them three years ago; and a bunch who bought them within the last six months.

What I find odd is that the three of us have all had the same issue. I'm certain there are plenty more. My guess is a mix of cheap glue and poor QA.

Interested for sure. I’d go with a bad batch of glue or something along those lines.

Lifting belts have been made for decades, and unless I’m ignorant, how complicated can glueing two pieces of leather be?

I think if if was a legit issue than everybody’s belt would come unglued at some point. Cost of doing business. Nothings forever and most things have a service life and that’s it.

[Culican]

Interested for sure. I’d go with a bad batch of glue or something along those lines.

Lifting belts have been made for decades, and unless I’m ignorant, how complicated can glueing two pieces of leather be?

I think if if was a legit issue than everybody’s belt would come unglued at some point. Cost of doing business. Nothings forever and most things have a service life and that’s it.

My Inzer 13mm is two pieces of leather glued together (with the suede glued on the outside). There have been no problems with the layers coming unglued.

[MarkKO]

My belt is 13mm which is 2- 6.5mm pieces of leather glued and stitched together. The leather pieces have separated once, and are starting to do so one year after the local repair.

Back in ~2012 or so I bought a 13mm Elite FTS P2 belt. It looks identical to the 13mm Pioneer belt (including identical rivets) and was shipped from Texas so I am almost certain it was made by Pioneer. After I had had it less than 6 months the leather separated just as you describe. I used some glue (can't recall the exact type) and worked it in between the layers and it seemed to hold. I don't know whether it would hold long-term as I bought an Inzer about six months later. I have used the Inzer almost exclusively since then and it has held up fine. Every once in a while I try out the P2 again but the Inzer just feels better; the buckle on the P2 seems to dig in to me.

Me, you, and Marrko are the only 3 I know of that have had pioneer issues. Maybe sometimes things go wrong?

Bad glue? Not enough glue?

I've heard it from a few other people outside here too. I'd be very curious to see what opinions would be if we got a cohort of people who bought Pioneer over five years ago; and then those who bought them three years ago; and a bunch who bought them within the last six months.

What I find odd is that the three of us have all had the same issue. I'm certain there are plenty more. My guess is a mix of cheap glue and poor QA.

Interested for sure. I’d go with a bad batch of glue or something along those lines.

Lifting belts have been made for decades, and unless I’m ignorant, how complicated can glueing two pieces of leather be?

I think if if was a legit issue than everybody’s belt would come unglued at some point. Cost of doing business. Nothings forever and most things have a service life and that’s it.

More complicated than you'd think. There's a decent amount going on when you glue things together and a fair bit can go wrong if you don't do it properly. Wrong glue, not preparing the surfaces properly, not enough pressure, wrong temperature, etc.

There's also the possibility than many who buy Pioneer use the belts for too short a period to notice the issue.

[5hout]

More complicated than you'd think. There's a decent amount going on when you glue things together and a fair bit can go wrong if you don't do it properly. Wrong glue, not preparing the surfaces properly, not enough pressure, wrong temperature, etc.

There's also the possibility than many who buy Pioneer use the belts for too short a period to notice the issue.

I'm not going to say I'm an expert, b/c I'm definitely not, but I've tanned my own hides and done a moderate bit of leather working. The problem with leather is that finished products look like it's a synthetic product, but it's annoyingly variable and natural. I did not appreciate this for my 1st few projects and it made them way harder. The piece to piece variation is far more than graded timber, it's more like buying your own semi-seasoned logs and milling them, especially when you're working with the ultra-thick minimally processed leather belts are made from.

[MarkKO]

More complicated than you'd think. There's a decent amount going on when you glue things together and a fair bit can go wrong if you don't do it properly. Wrong glue, not preparing the surfaces properly, not enough pressure, wrong temperature, etc.

There's also the possibility than many who buy Pioneer use the belts for too short a period to notice the issue.

I'm not going to say I'm an expert, b/c I'm definitely not, but I've tanned my own hides and done a moderate bit of leather working. The problem with leather is that finished products look like it's a synthetic product, but it's annoyingly variable and natural. I did not appreciate this for my 1st few projects and it made them way harder. The piece to piece variation is far more than graded timber, it's more like buying your own semi-seasoned logs and milling them, especially when you're working with the ultra-thick minimally processed leather belts are made from.

This doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

It doesn't change my less than great opinion of Pioneer though, since Titan and Inzer seem to manage to avoid the issues.

It raises the possibility that the issue may be leather quality, however, rather than issues in the manufacturing process. Much the same with timber, if you buy poor quality timber the end product will be limited.

Possibly Pioneer sources cheaper leather now they're a larger operation.

[5hout]

It raises the possibility that the issue may be leather quality, however, rather than issues in the manufacturing process. Much the same with timber, if you buy poor quality timber the end product will be limited.

Possibly Pioneer sources cheaper leather now they're a larger operation.

Could be, could be scaling up issues of many kinds. FWIW I bought a used belt off Allen and I love it to pieces, but I only wear it for squats over 225 (i.e. 2-3 days per week and it lives in a climate controlled barn), so it's not like I'm beating the snot out of it and it has an older non-PAL lever (if I correctly understand what PAL is).

That's one of the many things that stops me from wanting to retire in 10-20 years to crafting stuff, if you sell enough to make a living you've got to scale past artisan, and seems very hard to do (or sell at crazy prices). It's great they are actively trying to innovate, but hopefully they get the details sorted out as well.

For those who are terminally bored https://www.springfieldleather.com/Impo ... ickness=10 I'd guess an equivalent to this is being sourced. Depending on luck and skill might be able to cut 6 belt sides out of it. The second picture shows one of the biggest issues with QC/sorting, the edges are super variable in thickness so you're only cutting from the middle and the right side of the middle (at least on the sides I've handled) has a weird spot. So you're basically cutting out of this box: https://imgur.com/a/zPew8g6

[Oldandfat]

I,dunno. They have a video explaining all the manufacturers and some of them use cheap leather and cardboard in the middle of layers.

I think they still use good stuff?

Who knows. There’s still a lot of praise for them. Really liking the SBD belt too but man…. $$$$.

I think I’ll like lever, and it absolutely has to be adjustable.

I’ll give pioneer another shake. And next time I’m in the us I’ll send it back for repair (way cheaper postage).

Who mows, bad glue, and belt glue guy who made my belt was his last day and just wanted two go home?

[Oldandfat]

More complicated than you'd think. There's a decent amount going on when you glue things together and a fair bit can go wrong if you don't do it properly. Wrong glue, not preparing the surfaces properly, not enough pressure, wrong temperature, etc.

There's also the possibility than many who buy Pioneer use the belts for too short a period to notice the issue.

I'm not going to say I'm an expert, b/c I'm definitely not, but I've tanned my own hides and done a moderate bit of leather working. The problem with leather is that finished products look like it's a synthetic product, but it's annoyingly variable and natural. I did not appreciate this for my 1st few projects and it made them way harder. The piece to piece variation is far more than graded timber, it's more like buying your own semi-seasoned logs and milling them, especially when you're working with the ultra-thick minimally processed leather belts are made from.

By no means am I discounting what’s involved in the belt making process.

What I meant was they’ve been glueing two pieces of leather together for decades. It’s not like I bought my belt when they switched over to some new technique or some kind of non gmo earth friendly glue.

The PAL system is a good example. It’s new. There’s a problem with a roll pin. It’s been identified and fixed. It’s a thing.

As far as I know leather coming apart isn’t a thing aside from the 3 of us here. Even at bb.com pioneer is well regarded.

[Hardartery]

Interested for sure. I’d go with a bad batch of glue or something along those lines.

Lifting belts have been made for decades, and unless I’m ignorant, how complicated can glueing two pieces of leather be?

I think if if was a legit issue than everybody’s belt would come unglued at some point. Cost of doing business. Nothings forever and most things have a service life and that’s it.

Inzer's belt has a Forever warranty. If it ever goes bad, they replace it. A prong came off my lever, they shipped me a new one, no problem. Granted, I have used my belt less times in the entire time that I have owned it than most guys use one in a month, it was simply a defective part and I think there was a batch of them (I remember several guys on a long defunct forum complaining and then being happy about the easy free replacement). It broke a long time ago, within a month or teo of getting it. I don't wear a belt generally, so I didn't bother getting it replaced until last year. It's probably 20 years old. No problem replacement, and the actual belt looks brand new and perfect.

[Oldandfat]

Pioneer is lifetime warranty too. I chose not to use it because round trip shipping to Canada is almost as much as a new belt.

[Culican]

Pioneer is lifetime warranty too. I chose not to use it because round trip shipping to Canada is almost as much as a new belt.

I didn't mention this because I didn't want to complicate the story but the first belt I got had a manufacturing defect, the leather was shaved very thin on one edge where the outside layer loops around the buckle and is riveted. It was actually still usable but I didn't like the idea of paying for something that had such a visible defect. I took a picture and emailed it to Elite FTS and they immediately sent me out a replacement (again shipped not from their location but from Texas, where Pioneer is). Elite FTS said they would send me a shipping label to return it but they never did. I emailed them again asking for a return label and they never answered so I gave the belt to a friend.

Point is you may not have to pay to ship it back if something happens. Once they saw a picture of the defect there was no reason for them to have it returned and have to deal with something they couldn't resell.