The Russia vs Ukraine show

[quikky]

Xi's commitment to the defense of Kazakhstan's sovereignty (remember Russia did this earlier in the year), as well as his traveling to a lot of other ex-USSR Asian republics is an interesting development. It would appear that China is vying to expand its sphere of influence to these countries as it sees Russia's shrinking.

This is just...bizarre. By the end of 2022 to early 2023 we could see the complete dismantling of the Russian Imperial State. What a colossal blunder. This has to be one of the greatest geopolitical blunders in the history of the world unfolding before our eyes. I don't see how Russia reverses this. Russia already had superior quantity of materials, equipment, and manpower at the start of the war. A draft would only introduce untrained, unequipped combatants against a confident, Western trained and equipped, veteran UKR force. Russia done fucked.

To some degree, I find the possibility of China moving into that void comforting because I think that makes it less likely Russia would us nuclear weapons. There IS some question of how the West would respond to Russia using tactical nuclear weapons. There is NO question to how China would respond. Also, China and those States/areas better align. They are ill suited to Western culture. The West should focus on UKR and other Baltic States that want to be Western.

I agree, I believe the war in Ukraine is one of the most important events in our lifetimes. I do not think a lot of people truly realize the seismic shifts that are occurring in the world because of this war on many, many levels.

[mikeylikey]

This is just...bizarre. By the end of 2022 to early 2023 we could see the complete dismantling of the Russian Imperial State. What a colossal blunder. This has to be one of the greatest geopolitical blunders in the history of the world unfolding before our eyes.

[mbasic]

Perhaps even more interestingly:

https://news.yahoo.com/xi-lands-kazakhs ... 35233.html

Xi's commitment to the defense of Kazakhstan's sovereignty (remember Russia did this earlier in the year), as well as his traveling to a lot of other ex-USSR Asian republics is an interesting development. It would appear that China is vying to expand its sphere of influence to these countries as it sees Russia's shrinking.

I had a good laugh at this:



--------------------------------------

man, researching/learning about how stalin/russia/ussr totally fucked up the ethnic regionality of some parts of asia is a total mindfuck.

[mbasic]

I guess if you are UKR, and what you do now is when you retake (in the process of 'Liberating") those eastern areas which DID HAVE some pro russian civilians and/or russian-ethnics there before this whole thing started....


.... well, you just kinda off those inconvenient peeps under the guise of war or collateral causalities or whatever.

Oopsies.

[quikky]

I guess if you are UKR, and what you do now is when you retake (in the process of 'Liberating") those eastern areas which DID HAVE some pro russian civilians and/or russian-ethnics there before this whole thing started....


.... well, you just kinda off those inconvenient peeps under the guise of war or collateral causalities or whatever.

Oopsies.

Why did you put "liberating" in quotes? And, I'm not sure I get what you're saying overall. Are you saying now Ukraine will engage in genocide in its re-claimed territories?

[mbasic]

I guess if you are UKR, and what you do now is when you retake (in the process of 'Liberating") those eastern areas which DID HAVE some pro russian civilians and/or russian-ethnics there before this whole thing started....


.... well, you just kinda off those inconvenient peeps under the guise of war or collateral causalities or whatever.

Oopsies.

Why did you put "liberating" in quotes? And, I'm not sure I get what you're saying overall. Are you saying now Ukraine will engage in genocide in its re-claimed territories?

Not full scale genocide per se ....

... but offing a few political rabble rousers along way isn't exactly Liberating in its truest sense IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the war is turning out the way it is for russia and putin, but I doubt ukraine is a bunch of innocent angels.

I'm sure there's going to be some ...... uncomfortablalities, that arise out of the Liberation.

This is all to be expected and not surprising i suppose

[dw]

They are of course going to kill some people in the recaptured territories. They are very likely to be more restrained than Russia because of the more moderate character of their ruling class and form of government...beyond that what do you want? It's a war.

[quikky]

I guess if you are UKR, and what you do now is when you retake (in the process of 'Liberating") those eastern areas which DID HAVE some pro russian civilians and/or russian-ethnics there before this whole thing started....


.... well, you just kinda off those inconvenient peeps under the guise of war or collateral causalities or whatever.

Oopsies.

Why did you put "liberating" in quotes? And, I'm not sure I get what you're saying overall. Are you saying now Ukraine will engage in genocide in its re-claimed territories?

Not full scale genocide per se ....

... but offing a few political rabble rousers along way isn't exactly Liberating in its truest sense IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the war is turning out the way it is for russia and putin, but I doubt ukraine is a bunch of innocent angels.

I'm sure there's going to be some ...... uncomfortablalities, that arise out of the Liberation.

This is all to be expected and not surprising i suppose

I am again not sure what you're getting at. Is your suggestion that once Ukraine liberates its own land, it will start killing ethnic Russians living there? Maybe not full genocide, but like, kind of? What Kremlin outlet did you hear this from? This is literally Putin's propaganda used to justify not only this war, but the 2014 invasion.

In terms of offing collaborators, yeah, they are fair targets during war. You have people working directly with the enemy government, helping them secure territory and providing them with intel. Why is killing them inappropriate? At peace time, I am sure they would be arrested and put on trial for treason, which has been officially expressed by the Ukrainian government. During war, while they are in occupied territories working for the enemy, they are no different than enemy combatants.

----

As a side point, I find the "Ukraine is not perfect" rhetoric tiresome. No one, including Ukraine themselves, claims they are perfect. They are well aware of their own problems, of which there are many. However, bringing this up during this war is like watching someone getting raped and beaten, and going "well, this is wrong but this person did cheat on their taxes in the past so they're not perfect either". Just smells like quasi-justification to me.

[aurelius]

Fucking tax evaders get what they get.

[quikky]

Fucking tax evaders get what they get.

[mbasic]

I am again not sure what you're getting at. Is your suggestion that once Ukraine liberates its own land, it will start killing ethnic Russians living there? Maybe not full genocide, but like, kind of?

you're right, they wouldn't do that.

its fine anyway

end...means

[OrderInChaos]

I guess if you are UKR, and what you do now is when you retake (in the process of 'Liberating") those eastern areas which DID HAVE some pro russian civilians and/or russian-ethnics there before this whole thing started....


.... well, you just kinda off those inconvenient peeps under the guise of war or collateral causalities or whatever.

Oopsies.

Why did you put "liberating" in quotes? And, I'm not sure I get what you're saying overall. Are you saying now Ukraine will engage in genocide in its re-claimed territories?

Not full scale genocide per se ....

... but offing a few political rabble rousers along way isn't exactly Liberating in its truest sense IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the war is turning out the way it is for russia and putin, but I doubt ukraine is a bunch of innocent angels.

I'm sure there's going to be some ...... uncomfortablalities, that arise out of the Liberation.

This is all to be expected and not surprising i suppose

During war, while they are in occupied territories working for the enemy, they are no different than enemy combatants.

Depending on whose read of the Geneva Convention you apply, civilian irregulars like DPR/LPR aligned civilians might have even fewer protections than enemy combatants.

[GlasgowJock]

Today Putin announced a 'partial mobilisation' of 300'000 troops to bolster the RuF deployed currently in Ukraine. He has also implicitly stated that an attack on territories considered 'Russian' would be countered with all options available including a nuclear strike.

This weekend there are sham elections being held in territories acquired since the start of this year's 'special military operation' so that such regions can be labelled as Russian much like Crimea in 2014.

When he states 'I am not bluffing' concerning the nuclear option people understandably think the opposite.

More sabre rattling from a crazed and unwell dictator being increasingly backed into a corner through his own hubris and insulation from reality, or credible 'Sum of all Fears' material right here?

[Brackish]

Today Putin announced a 'partial mobilisation' of 300'000 troops to bolster the RuF deployed currently in Ukraine. He has also implicitly stated that an attack on territories considered 'Russian' would be countered with all options available including a nuclear strike.

This weekend there are sham elections being held in territories acquired since the start of this year's 'special military operation' so that such regions can be labelled as Russian much like Crimea in 2014.

When he states 'I am not bluffing' concerning the nuclear option people understandably think the opposite.

More sabre rattling from a crazed and unwell dictator being increasingly backed into a corner through his own hubris and insulation from reality, or credible 'Sum of all Fears' material right here?

Let's just hope his mental health hasn't degraded to the point where using a nuclear weapon, even a tactical nuke, so close to his own country seems like a good idea.

[mbasic]

Today Putin announced a 'partial mobilisation' of 300'000 troops to bolster the RuF deployed currently in Ukraine. He has also implicitly stated that an attack on territories considered 'Russian' would be countered with all options available including a nuclear strike.

This weekend there are sham elections being held in territories acquired since the start of this year's 'special military operation' so that such regions can be labelled as Russian much like Crimea in 2014.

When he states 'I am not bluffing' concerning the nuclear option people understandably think the opposite.

More sabre rattling from a crazed and unwell dictator being increasingly backed into a corner through his own hubris and insulation from reality, or credible 'Sum of all Fears' material right here?

re the bolded part above, and 'bluffing'.

I mean, don't we all accept that UKR has already blown some shit up INSIDE Russia ....like in Russia-Russia? Not fake-russia?
So funny dichotomy/irony that Russia has to deny those were successful UKR attacks (i.e. smoking accidents at ammo warehouse)
to look not-incompotent at defending their homeland/interior .....while at the same time NOT retaliating with just utter shock-and-awe-taking-the-gloves-off for attacks on their homeland.....because they are doing everything they can now and loosing. Seemed like that would have qualified as the excuse to use a nuke based on "attacks on Russian land" doctrine.

Let's just hope his mental health hasn't degraded to the point where using a nuclear weapon, even a tactical nuke, so close to his own country seems like a good idea.

As far a "tactical nuke" .... I just can't see it being effective.
I guess the idea here would be to use a small nuke, on the battlefield, directly on the UKR forces.
The fighting is spread out over a pretty big area, in what I would describe as major skirmishes ....
I don't think ONE tactical nuke is going put a big dent the URK forces, for what its worth in what would be the subsequent World Retaliation against RUS.

I guess he could nuke the URK "proper" as it were .... that's pretty much a civilian strike.

[Cellist]

The party’s over, folks. Last call!

„Flights out of Russia sell out after Putin orders partial call-up„

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fl ... 022-09-21/

[mbasic]

The party’s over, folks. Last call!

„Flights out of Russia sell out after Putin orders partial call-up„

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fl ... 022-09-21/

That was not the "mobilization" Putin was going for .... DOH !

[aurelius]

Russia has drawn so many lines in the sand.

“Better not give them stuff!” We give them stuff.
“Okay. But don’t give them long range stuff.” We give them long range stuff.
“Don’t attack Russia.” UKR attacks military targets in Russia.

This is getting comical.

[Hiphopapotamus]

Russia has drawn so many lines in the sand.

“Better not give them stuff!” We give them stuff.
“Okay. But don’t give them long range stuff.” We give them long range stuff.
“Don’t attack Russia.” UKR attacks military targets in Russia.

This is getting comical.

But Putin is super serious this time. Like swearsie-realisies serious.

[GlasgowJock]

The party’s over, folks. Last call!

„Flights out of Russia sell out after Putin orders partial call-up„

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fl ... 022-09-21/