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Blue windshield washer stuff wtf?
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:03 pm
by Oldandfat
So right now it’s -35c outside. About -31f
In our vehicles the washer fluid is fine. It don’t freeze. Good till -40.
It’s sitting in jugs in my garage (-6) and still fluid. Good to -40
I put some blue stuff in a pail with a squeegee to clean lights and windows. Frozen solid.
Wtf? Am I missing something ?
Re: Blue windshield washer stuff wtf?
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:37 pm
by Hanley
Oldandfat wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:03 pm
Wtf? Am I missing something ?
The freezing point is somewhere between the temperature of your garage and the current temperature outdoors?
Re: Blue windshield washer stuff wtf?
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:43 pm
by Oldandfat
Hanley wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:37 pm
Oldandfat wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:03 pm
Wtf? Am I missing something ?
The freezing point is somewhere between the temperature of your garage and the current temperature outdoors?
If it’s good to minus 40 it shouldn’t freeze in the pail in the garage. The jug I poured it from doesn’t freeze.
You left me hanging about your tundra issues…..
What year, and what issues? Tundras are generally very reliable
Re: Blue windshield washer stuff wtf?
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:48 pm
by Hanley
Oldandfat wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:43 pm
Hanley wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:37 pm
Oldandfat wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:03 pm
Wtf? Am I missing something ?
The freezing point is somewhere between the temperature of your garage and the current temperature outdoors?
If it’s good to minus 40 it shouldn’t freeze in the pail in the garage. The jug I poured it from doesn’t freeze.
Put the capped jug outside.
If that doesn't freeze, I'd guess the open container is freezing because of alcohol evaporation (it evaporates super fast).
###
Dude, the Tundra shit is behind me and I don't want to relive it. I shouldn't have brought it up.
Re: Blue windshield washer stuff wtf?
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:48 pm
by weisgarber
Isn't washer fluid a mixture of alcohol, other solvents, and water? The solvents and alcohol will evaporate if left in an open container, leaving behind mostly water.
Re: Blue windshield washer stuff wtf?
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:03 pm
by Oldandfat
It’s in a 5,gallon pail with lid on it (not snapped closed, just “sitting” on pail).
I didn’t think the alcohol stuff would evaporate?
Re: Blue windshield washer stuff wtf?
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:24 pm
by mgil
Oldandfat wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:03 pm
It’s in a 5,gallon pail with lid on it (not snapped closed, just “sitting” on pail).
I didn’t think the alcohol stuff would evaporate?
When you spread it thin on a windshield, yes, it still evaporates quickly.
Most stuff is good to -20F. Even around here on a cold day around ~0F, idiots will spray their windshield with the washer nozzles and be greeted with an immediately opaque windshield.
Re: Blue windshield washer stuff wtf?
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:26 pm
by Culican
Oldandfat wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:03 pm
It’s in a 5,gallon pail with lid on it (not snapped closed, just “sitting” on pail).
I didn’t think the alcohol stuff would evaporate?
Methanol is fairly volatile.
It doesn't take a loss of much methanol to raise the freezing point from -40°C to -30°C.
Freezing Points of Methanol/Water Solutions
Re: Blue windshield washer stuff wtf?
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:44 pm
by Oldandfat
My garage is -6 right now. Washer stuff in Home Depot orange bucket frozen solid. I guess it has to be air tight to not evap
Re: Blue windshield washer stuff wtf?
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:58 pm
by JonA
It makes more sense if you think about it terms of relative humidity rather than temperature. Water evaporates quicker when the relative humidity is lower. Well, the atmosphere is 0% humidity with respect to alcohol (unfortunately). So it's going to absorb alcohol faster than water, regardless of temperature. (Even with the typical low relative humidity at subzero temperatures)
Washer fluid can freeze on your windshield because misting increases the surface area for evaporation, but also increases the air flow across fluid (both because it's traveling through the air onto your windshield and also because you are probably driving down a road). That's normally a bonus, because your windshield will quickly dry with only a few swipes of the wipers. But if it's cold enough, the alcohol evaporation will allow the water the freeze before _it_ can evaporate.
Pouring the wiper fluid into the bucket had much the same effect. The increase surface area and agitation caused by pouring can cause evaporation, especially for the methanol. You could probably smell it in the air after your poured it in the bucket. And if you poured a single bottle into a 5-gallon pail, there is quite a bit of air volume to absorb the alcohol, even with the lid on.
Re: Blue windshield washer stuff wtf?
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:51 pm
by Oldandfat
JonA wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:58 pm
It makes more sense if you think about it terms of relative humidity rather than temperature. Water evaporates quicker when the relative humidity is lower. Well, the atmosphere is 0% humidity with respect to alcohol (unfortunately). So it's going to absorb alcohol faster than water, regardless of temperature. (Even with the typical low relative humidity at subzero temperatures)
Washer fluid can freeze on your windshield because misting increases the surface area for evaporation, but also increases the air flow across fluid (both because it's traveling through the air onto your windshield and also because you are probably driving down a road). That's normally a bonus, because your windshield will quickly dry with only a few swipes of the wipers. But if it's cold enough, the alcohol evaporation will allow the water the freeze before _it_ can evaporate.
Pouring the wiper fluid into the bucket had much the same effect. The increase surface area and agitation caused by pouring can cause evaporation, especially for the methanol. You could probably smell it in the air after your poured it in the bucket. And if you poured a single bottle into a 5-gallon pail, there is quite a bit of air volume to absorb the alcohol, even with the lid on.
Who knew? My plan b is to pour the stuff in a spray bottle and use it “on demand” with the mini squeegee. Or a shop rag
Re: Blue windshield washer stuff wtf?
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:07 pm
by Hanley
Oldandfat wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:51 pm
JonA wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:58 pm
It makes more sense if you think about it terms of relative humidity rather than temperature. Water evaporates quicker when the relative humidity is lower. Well, the atmosphere is 0% humidity with respect to alcohol (unfortunately). So it's going to absorb alcohol faster than water, regardless of temperature. (Even with the typical low relative humidity at subzero temperatures)
Washer fluid can freeze on your windshield because misting increases the surface area for evaporation, but also increases the air flow across fluid (both because it's traveling through the air onto your windshield and also because you are probably driving down a road). That's normally a bonus, because your windshield will quickly dry with only a few swipes of the wipers. But if it's cold enough, the alcohol evaporation will allow the water the freeze before _it_ can evaporate.
Pouring the wiper fluid into the bucket had much the same effect. The increase surface area and agitation caused by pouring can cause evaporation, especially for the methanol. You could probably smell it in the air after your poured it in the bucket. And if you poured a single bottle into a 5-gallon pail, there is quite a bit of air volume to absorb the alcohol, even with the lid on.
Who knew? My plan b is to pour the stuff in a spray bottle and use it “on demand” with the mini squeegee. Or a shop rag
Wait, what? Spray/mist will absolutely freeze.
Re: Blue windshield washer stuff wtf?
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:02 pm
by Oldandfat
Hanley wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:07 pm
Oldandfat wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:51 pm
JonA wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:58 pm
It makes more sense if you think about it terms of relative humidity rather than temperature. Water evaporates quicker when the relative humidity is lower. Well, the atmosphere is 0% humidity with respect to alcohol (unfortunately). So it's going to absorb alcohol faster than water, regardless of temperature. (Even with the typical low relative humidity at subzero temperatures)
Washer fluid can freeze on your windshield because misting increases the surface area for evaporation, but also increases the air flow across fluid (both because it's traveling through the air onto your windshield and also because you are probably driving down a road). That's normally a bonus, because your windshield will quickly dry with only a few swipes of the wipers. But if it's cold enough, the alcohol evaporation will allow the water the freeze before _it_ can evaporate.
Pouring the wiper fluid into the bucket had much the same effect. The increase surface area and agitation caused by pouring can cause evaporation, especially for the methanol. You could probably smell it in the air after your poured it in the bucket. And if you poured a single bottle into a 5-gallon pail, there is quite a bit of air volume to absorb the alcohol, even with the lid on.
Who knew? My plan b is to pour the stuff in a spray bottle and use it “on demand” with the mini squeegee. Or a shop rag
Wait, what? Spray/mist will absolutely freeze.
Nope. Works like a charm. Spray headlights/tail lights, and wipe clean. Works at -6 anyway. Didn’t feel like trying in -30 tonight. Maybe tomorrow.