Exodus Strength

I rarely get sore, ever, and if I do it's only slight, even on exercises I haven't done for a while, I seem to remember reading/hearing somewhere that this is related to fibre type?
IIrc I think it might have been Mike Isratel that stated that if you never experience Doms it's indicates more slow twitch fibres
It's fair to say at my level of strength and athleticism that there's a fair chance this might be true!
Any ideas? Any other low responders find the same?

My experience with coaching fencers is that DOMS is far more related to volume vs acclimatization, so depending on how you train you might not be inducing profound falling over when getting out of a bed the next morning DOMS. Basically, kids/I would come back from summer break and do a bunch of footwork (massive leg volume). 1st timers would be wrecked with DOMS. Sophomores a little less so, and by junior/senior year the DOMS was like "yeah I'm sore, but this is fine".

GeoffBUK wrote: ↑Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:24 am I rarely get sore, ever, and if I do it's only slight, even on exercises I haven't done for a while, I seem to remember reading/hearing somewhere that this is related to fibre type?
IIrc I think it might have been Mike Isratel that stated that if you never experience Doms it's indicates more slow twitch fibres
It's fair to say at my level of strength and athleticism that there's a fair chance this might be true!
Any ideas? Any other low responders find the same?

As a teenager doing bro stuff I got DOMS with excessive volume. As a competitive strength athlete training heavy 3-4 times a week I never got any DOMS. I also had undiagnosed low T, which I know because one of my doctors actually did that lab way back then and it was in my records to see when an endo prescribed me testogel of his own accord after a very low test level on my labs years later. I finally broke down and went on TRT, and get DOMS frequently now. It's worse with higher volume bro stuff, but it's there to some extent after every workout now. And I am by no means pushing the envelope with test levels, I am running just barely enough to put me at mid-range on the labs. When I tried a restart to get off of TRT last year the DOMS went away when the test levels went away. Not saying you need TRT or anything, just my n=1.

How many sets are you doing, in what rep range, and with what proximity to failure? I usually don't get soreness with submaximal low rep sets unless I really do a shitload of them, on the other hand like 3-4 sets of higher reps with maybe 1-2 RIR on most of them will consistently produce DOMS for me.

janoycresva wrote: ↑Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:30 pm How many sets are you doing, in what rep range, and with what proximity to failure? I usually don't get soreness with submaximal low rep sets unless I really do a shitload of them, on the other hand like 3-4 sets of higher reps with maybe 1-2 RIR on most of them will consistently produce DOMS for me.

Thanks for the replies, all, These days I follow my own interpretation of John Hanleys Montana method so for bench say 6-9 sets of 5 or 7 reps leaving what feels like 3-4 reps in the tank, and try for a max PR when the weight goes up on the sets of 5-7 and it still feels as easy or easier, even trying bro stuff to faliure doesn't make me really sore though

@Hardartery The TRT thing sounds interesting, I think this was kind of the gist of what Isratel said, if you rarely get sore and get little pump you won't respond very robustly to the stimulus, more because of Genetic factors ie Fast twitch/slow twitch and Test levels etc than any given training style/protocol
Even when I used to train one set to faliure I don't remember geting very sore/pumped although maybe a little more so when I was younger

Stupid question incoming: has it been hypothesized somewhere that there is a direct correlation between fiber types and test levels?

Renascent wrote: ↑Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:56 am Stupid question incoming: has it been hypothesized somewhere that there is a direct correlation between fiber types and test levels?

Would that mean that high Test ( perhaps 'Genetically' for want of a better way of putting it, I don't mean as opposed to peds ) influences fibre type or just that those that have naturally high test are also blessed with other Genetic advantages Including fast twitch fibres and such?

Renascent wrote: ↑Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:56 am Stupid question incoming: has it been hypothesized somewhere that there is a direct correlation between fiber types and test levels?

Nope. I doubt that there is any relation. I have been at my strongest while not having great test levels, and Iincreasing the test levels has heped my training mostly through improved ambition and drive to get off of my ass and do something.

GeoffBUK wrote: ↑Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:24 am
It's fair to say at my level of strength and athleticism that there's a fair chance this might be true!
Any ideas? Any other low responders find the same?

fiber type do not determine athleticism. There are exceptional athletes on both ends of the spectrum. the sport will determine the fiber type which best acommodates its demands.

Renascent wrote: ↑Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:56 am Stupid question incoming: has it been hypothesized somewhere that there is a direct correlation between fiber types and test levels?

Ive never heard that

GeoffBUK wrote: ↑Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:02 pm

Would that mean that high Test ( perhaps 'Genetically' for want of a better way of putting it, I don't mean as opposed to peds ) influences fibre type or just that those that have naturally high test are also blessed with other Genetic advantages Including fast twitch fibres and such?

Again, you are only "blessed" with fast twitch muscles if you want to be a sprinter or play bball. if you were an individual with fast twitch that wanted to win a tour de france then you would be cursed

Very true, but I wanna be this dude!

GeoffBUK wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:39 pm Very true, but I wanna be this dude!

eastern europeans do seem to have pretty favorable genetics for explosiveness, as do western africans

Renascent wrote: ↑Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:56 am Stupid question incoming: has it been hypothesized somewhere that there is a direct correlation between fiber types and test levels?

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 21-04851-w

mbasic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:46 am

Renascent wrote: ↑Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:56 am Stupid question incoming: has it been hypothesized somewhere that there is a direct correlation between fiber types and test levels?

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 21-04851-w

Thanks.

Initially, my question came about from some of the preceding comments which seemed to imply (?) there was some established correlation, though I may have been misinterpreting.

In the past, I've also come across some interesting thoughts on fiber type conversion due to age, though I assumed some relationship between activity levels, physical decline, and other associated factors weren't taken into consideration. Made me wonder if/how hormones came into play as well.

I'll give this a look-through once I'm off the clock.

mbasic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:46 am

Renascent wrote: ↑Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:56 am Stupid question incoming: has it been hypothesized somewhere that there is a direct correlation between fiber types and test levels?

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 21-04851-w

Interesting. The paper alludes to a previous study showing increases in both fiber types in men and fast twitch fibers in women with exogenous testosterone. They go on to identify a subset of genes associated with higher testosterone levels and greater fast twitch fiber cross section and greater strength, as well as likelihood of high level involvement in strength or power sports. Intriguingly, they go on to hypothesize that these genes, initially selected for their association with elevated testosterone, have some not as yet understood influence on skeletal muscle phenotypes. This is funny because it is the mirror image of the fallacy most common in human research, where tortured mechanisms of causation are proposed to explain correlation. Instead, the authors mostly ignore the known causative link between testosterone and muscle mass, and propose this is an inexplicable correlation upon which further research is needed.

I have always been on the lower end of T (350-500 depending on the day) and I get crippling levels of DOMS. I do likely have a disproportionate amount of fast twitch fibers though, so that part matches up.

Just another data point for you!

timelinex wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:22 pm I have always been on the lower end of T (350-500 depending on the day) and I get crippling levels of DOMS. I do likely have a disproportionate amount of fast twitch fibers though, so that part matches up.

Just another data point for you!

Thanks, I'm pretty sure I'm not very fast twitch, not very fast/explosive, I tried some reverse lunges recently, which I've never done before and did get sore in the glutes/hips but not quads

I only get DOMs when I've had a week plus rest away from training, typically when I haven't been able to squat on holiday and my hamstrings are crippled for a couple of days following the first session back. I've been doing the same limited movements for over 6 years now so the absence of any novel stimulus arguably helps.

I don't seem to have any trouble giving myself DOMS, when it comes to lower body work. It's especially pronounced when I've had to avoid the gym for a week. For example, as I sit here and type this, I know that I will barely be able to sit down on the toilet tomorrow. Cause - I had the flu and couldn't bring myself to squat, even lightweight stuff, last week. Yesterday, I went back to my regularly scheduled programming, so I'm going to pay for it.

However, I rarely, if ever, get DOMS for upper body stuff outside of some back soreness if I do tons of rows. I've never been able to give myself DOMS (at least not that I can remember) in my biceps, triceps, traps, pecs, etc.

If you actually want to create DOMS, try doing some kind of isolation type movement as a hard rest-pause set tacked onto the end of a workout that involved that muscle. If that doesn't give you a pump immediately after, and DOMs a day or so after, I don't know what will.

So, I don't often do Isolation tricep work, most of it pisses off my elbow on the iner side, banded pushdowns for high reps sometimes, don't know if they did much but didn't make me sore, Dito for dips, so lately I tried lying TRI extensions but holding the plate of the dumbbell for a sorta parallel grip, and let the weight go back behind my head for a slight pullover/extension type movement, stretching/loading my tri's at the bottom but not an aggressive/exaggerated stretch, 2 days later my triceps are as sore as f**k!, So novel movement+ loading at stretch position seems to = soreness, dunno if this indicates a better training stimulus/effect but tri's are seriously sore!