Mar-a-lago Bebop

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Trump Gate 2022

DOJ and FBI investigating a for sure serious crime
25
69%
DOJ and FBI on a fishing expedition
4
11%
Trump is an innocent bystander being attacked by the political machine
2
6%
Other
5
14%
 
Total votes: 36

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aurelius
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Mar-a-lago Bebop

#1

Post by aurelius » Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:57 pm

We have not yelled at each other incoherently in some time. This seems a good as topic as any. Poll time!

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Re: Mar-a-lago Bebop

#2

Post by mgil » Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:08 pm

Nota bene: one can believe Hillary had a server of classified emails on an unclassified network and Trump had several classified documents not in a secure container. The two need not be mutually exclusive.

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Re: Mar-a-lago Bebop

#3

Post by augeleven » Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:12 pm

Kinda surprised this didn’t pop up sooner too. I’m not smart enough to add anything of substance, but I’m popping up some corn in a bit anyway, so… I guess I’ll go first:

I find it hard to believe that DOJ/FBI aren’t terrified of the consequences of messing this up. [ETA: and so are jotting their Ts and tittling their Is to the extreme]. That is probably me believing in the myth of the FBI that they so meticulously built over it’s tenure. So I’m probably wrong?

Also, I find curious that I, a wacko libtard, am currently sharing my distrust of the FBI (COINTELPRO,Fred Hampton, Mumia etc.) with (checks Reddit news feed) Marjorie Taylor Greene. So I assume I’m also wrong here too.

Wrong in both sides of the argument - I amaze myself

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Re: Mar-a-lago Bebop

#4

Post by hector » Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:16 pm

augeleven wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:12 pm Kinda surprised this didn’t pop up sooner too. I’m not smart enough to add anything of substance, but I’m popping up some corn in a bit anyway, so… I guess I’ll go first:

I find it hard to believe that DOJ/FBI aren’t terrified of the consequences of messing this up. [ETA: and so are jotting their Ts and tittling their Is to the extreme]. That is probably me believing in the myth of the FBI that they so meticulously built over it’s tenure. So I’m probably wrong?

Also, I find curious that I, a wacko libtard, am currently sharing my distrust of the FBI (COINTELPRO,Fred Hampton, Mumia etc.) with (checks Reddit news feed) Marjorie Taylor Greene. So I assume I’m also wrong here too.

Wrong in both sides of the argument - I amaze myself
I think distrust of fbi and cia is one thing that separates us older wacko libtards from younger wacko libtards.

Some of the left/right stuff is being reshuffled.

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Re: Mar-a-lago Bebop

#5

Post by aurelius » Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:52 pm

I settle on they got something serious. IMO, Biden is too smart* to go down this path over something trivial.

I have read the 'smart' play is to indict Trump once they have everything. Then make a Nixon-esque type deal. Trump retires from public life for a conditional pardon. Biden announces he isn't running in 2024. This puts the time frame around middle of 2023 for all the cards to be put on the table. I think this is too smart with everyone playing 4D chess.

*Biden has slowly strung together legislative achievements in a hostile political environment to the surprise of everyone.

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Re: Mar-a-lago Bebop

#6

Post by Hardartery » Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:56 pm

aurelius wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:52 pm I settle on they got something serious. IMO, Biden is too smart* to go down this path over something trivial.

I have read the 'smart' play is to indict Trump once they have everything. Then make a Nixon-esque type deal. Trump retires from public life for a conditional pardon. Biden announces he isn't running in 2024. This puts the time frame around middle of 2023 for all the cards to be put on the table. I think this is too smart with everyone playing 4D chess.

*Biden has slowly strung together legislative achievements in a hostile political environment to the surprise of everyone.
There is no 4D chess going on here. I am 100% positive that neither Biden nor anyone in his cabinet are in any way directly involved, and they should not be. Trump should not have been in any way invovled in any day to day operations of the FBI either, they are a separate branch of government and it is very egregious action for one to meddle with the other. The FBI have been way more courteous than normal so far with Trump, and he has absolutely had a lot of special treatment. They would not have been able to get that warrant approved without really compelling cause. Maybe Merrick Garlans is playing 4D chess, but the rest of them are clearly not. And Eric Trump should not be permitted to speak publically, he says incredibly stupid and incriminating things.

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Re: Mar-a-lago Bebop

#7

Post by aurelius » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:47 pm

Hardartery wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:56 pmThere is no 4D chess going on here. I am 100% positive that neither Biden nor anyone in his cabinet are in any way directly involved, and they should not be. Trump should not have been in any way invovled in any day to day operations of the FBI either, they are a separate branch of government and it is very egregious action for one to meddle with the other. The FBI have been way more courteous than normal so far with Trump, and he has absolutely had a lot of special treatment. They would not have been able to get that warrant approved without really compelling cause. Maybe Merrick Garlans is playing 4D chess, but the rest of them are clearly not. And Eric Trump should not be permitted to speak publically, he says incredibly stupid and incriminating things.
I generally agree.

I would add that Biden is not involved in the day-to-day but certainly aware of the investigation. BUT...big but. Trump is not just some guy or even an Ex-President. Trump is Biden's #1 political opponent with a large following that has shown a propensity towards violence and insurrection. There is a significant political component that must be considered, even placed above the law, and that cannot be left up to Garland to weigh.

Minor quibble: The FBI is not a separate branch of government and does answer to POTUS. The FBI was a more political arm of the Executive Branch for decades. And was used as a blunt instrument against undesirables, political dissidents, and minority groups. The tradition of the FBI and DOJ as 'apolitical' and 'independent' of the Executive Branch started in the late 70's (? unsure of the date).

What I love: conservative media fails to mention the head of the FBI is a Trump appointee.

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Re: Mar-a-lago Bebop

#8

Post by JonA » Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:29 am

I can't get over the fact that they evidently called ahead and asked the staff to properly secure the documents. (Which they did)

There's all sorts of other revelations that, quite frankly, offend me. For example: The federal government seems to allow people to print top secret/classified documents to paper.

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Re: Mar-a-lago Bebop

#9

Post by Hardartery » Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:34 am

aurelius wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:47 pm
Hardartery wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:56 pmThere is no 4D chess going on here. I am 100% positive that neither Biden nor anyone in his cabinet are in any way directly involved, and they should not be. Trump should not have been in any way invovled in any day to day operations of the FBI either, they are a separate branch of government and it is very egregious action for one to meddle with the other. The FBI have been way more courteous than normal so far with Trump, and he has absolutely had a lot of special treatment. They would not have been able to get that warrant approved without really compelling cause. Maybe Merrick Garlans is playing 4D chess, but the rest of them are clearly not. And Eric Trump should not be permitted to speak publically, he says incredibly stupid and incriminating things.
I generally agree.

I would add that Biden is not involved in the day-to-day but certainly aware of the investigation. BUT...big but. Trump is not just some guy or even an Ex-President. Trump is Biden's #1 political opponent with a large following that has shown a propensity towards violence and insurrection. There is a significant political component that must be considered, even placed above the law, and that cannot be left up to Garland to weigh.

Minor quibble: The FBI is not a separate branch of government and does answer to POTUS. The FBI was a more political arm of the Executive Branch for decades. And was used as a blunt instrument against undesirables, political dissidents, and minority groups. The tradition of the FBI and DOJ as 'apolitical' and 'independent' of the Executive Branch started in the late 70's (? unsure of the date).

What I love: conservative media fails to mention the head of the FBI is a Trump appointee.
Trump being a political rival is all the more reason for Biden to be uninvolved in what goes on within the legal system, he may get informed of what goes on but it will in no way be his decision and he will be avoiding influencing it. At least in any way that can be proven. He is too experienced to be a blunt instrument like Trump and Co, he knows better. No political consideration can be considered, technically, in the process without violating some other laws. I can say that for certain Trump has violated some federal laws, because I can say for certain that everyone has almost certainly done that. I am not joking here, everyone can be construed to have violated something within the federal system which is why it is so difficult for people to win a case there. Garland is not asking anyone's permission, he's following the letter of the law and the dude is dotting the i's and crossing the t's. The executive branch can issue a pardon afterwards if they want, but they don't get a voice in the pursuit, and technically never should have.

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Re: Mar-a-lago Bebop

#10

Post by Hardartery » Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:39 am

JonA wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:29 am I can't get over the fact that they evidently called ahead and asked the staff to properly secure the documents. (Which they did)

There's all sorts of other revelations that, quite frankly, offend me. For example: The federal government seems to allow people to print top secret/classified documents to paper.
It's easier to check out the hard copy of a document like the library and then ddestroy it afterwards than to erase it's footprint on an electronic device. Safer than having it on a tablet in the Oval Office in many ways. Trump is getting caught because he thinks everyone is as sloppy as him. Archivists derive great joy over the OCD tracking of paper, he doesn't seem to get that they DO actually keep a detailed record of every piece of paper and where it is supposed to be.

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Re: Mar-a-lago Bebop

#11

Post by dw » Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:49 am

I wasn't going to say "100%" but I was also going to express doubt that Biden is involved.

I was disappointed to read in an ostensibly serious (though obviously from partisans) analysis in Newsweek that "the Biden administration is targeting Trump [for x,y,z reasons]..."

Excuse me? The FBI is now interchangeable with the current presidential administration? Does this mean both Trump and Hillary Clinton (as VP) were targeted by their own administrations?


Anyway I think the surface motives sound perfectly legitimate. Whether there is a fishing expedition beneath the surface I don't know, but as adversarial tactics go that is a pretty inoffensive one.

Whether there is a double standard here in aggressiveness is also not immediately obvious to me. Maybe nobody else has gotten this treatment for mishandling classified docs, but then again maybe nobody else has been this egregious about it.

And of course Trump's spinning it as Gestapoesque is dangerous and irresponsible.

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Re: Mar-a-lago Bebop

#12

Post by JonA » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:24 am

Hardartery wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:39 am It's easier to check out the hard copy of a document like the library and then ddestroy it afterwards than to erase it's footprint on an electronic device.
DRM technology is readily available, whether it's when I check out electronic books from my library, streamed the Lil Nash X song I just listened too, or watch "Shark Tank, but with your Girlfriend" on YouTube.
Last edited by JonA on Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mar-a-lago Bebop

#13

Post by aurelius » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:32 am

Hardartery wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:34 am Trump being a political rival is all the more reason for Biden to be uninvolved in what goes on within the legal system, he may get informed of what goes on but it will in no way be his decision and he will be avoiding influencing it. At least in any way that can be proven. He is too experienced to be a blunt instrument like Trump and Co, he knows better. No political consideration can be considered, technically, in the process without violating some other laws. I can say that for certain Trump has violated some federal laws, because I can say for certain that everyone has almost certainly done that. I am not joking here, everyone can be construed to have violated something within the federal system which is why it is so difficult for people to win a case there. Garland is not asking anyone's permission, he's following the letter of the law and the dude is dotting the i's and crossing the t's. The executive branch can issue a pardon afterwards if they want, but they don't get a voice in the pursuit, and technically never should have.
we may be talking past each other. I don’t think Biden is involved with the everyday. Certainly not aware of such details like the warrant and FBI search. I do think Biden is fully aware of the evidence and crimes being investigated. Based on that, Biden has given Garland broad authority to pursue it in the manner he has.

Where we disagree: this is not a legal matter. It is a political matter. The DOJ and FBI can do everything by the book and this can still end in a Civil War. Just witness the Republican ‘law and order’ response! Ultimately it is Biden that must weigh the political ramifications. That is not up to the DOJ. As you suggest and I mention, Biden can issue a pardon. Which would need to happen before the indictment. Remember that Nixon was never indicted. Ford pardoned Nixon because he understood the ramifications of going after Nixon and the precedent that would set.

I fear the worse. Trump will burn the house down before backing down. Nixon understood he was beat and accepted defeat for the greater good. The only reason I can think the DOJ and FBI has taken the steps it has is they have intelligence that some of the secrets were being offered on the open market.

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Re: Mar-a-lago Bebop

#14

Post by Hardartery » Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:54 am

aurelius wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:32 am
Hardartery wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:34 am Trump being a political rival is all the more reason for Biden to be uninvolved in what goes on within the legal system, he may get informed of what goes on but it will in no way be his decision and he will be avoiding influencing it. At least in any way that can be proven. He is too experienced to be a blunt instrument like Trump and Co, he knows better. No political consideration can be considered, technically, in the process without violating some other laws. I can say that for certain Trump has violated some federal laws, because I can say for certain that everyone has almost certainly done that. I am not joking here, everyone can be construed to have violated something within the federal system which is why it is so difficult for people to win a case there. Garland is not asking anyone's permission, he's following the letter of the law and the dude is dotting the i's and crossing the t's. The executive branch can issue a pardon afterwards if they want, but they don't get a voice in the pursuit, and technically never should have.
we may be talking past each other. I don’t think Biden is involved with the everyday. Certainly not aware of such details like the warrant and FBI search. I do think Biden is fully aware of the evidence and crimes being investigated. Based on that, Biden has given Garland broad authority to pursue it in the manner he has.

Where we disagree: this is not a legal matter. It is a political matter. The DOJ and FBI can do everything by the book and this can still end in a Civil War. Just witness the Republican ‘law and order’ response! Ultimately it is Biden that must weigh the political ramifications. That is not up to the DOJ. As you suggest and I mention, Biden can issue a pardon. Which would need to happen before the indictment. Remember that Nixon was never indicted. Ford pardoned Nixon because he understood the ramifications of going after Nixon and the precedent that would set.

I fear the worse. Trump will burn the house down before backing down. Nixon understood he was beat and accepted defeat for the greater good. The only reason I can think the DOJ and FBI has taken the steps it has is they have intelligence that some of the secrets were being offered on the open market.
I believe we agree. I am as sure as you are that Biden has been made well aware of everything as it progresses. I don't think he has a veto on the prosecution or pursuit, and would be well advised to steer clear of anything that could be construed as interference. I think him pardoning Trump would be hilarious, it would be humiliating in Trump World.

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Re: Mar-a-lago Bebop

#15

Post by JonA » Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:17 pm

Hardartery wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:39 am
JonA wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:29 am I can't get over the fact that they evidently called ahead and asked the staff to properly secure the documents. (Which they did)

There's all sorts of other revelations that, quite frankly, offend me. For example: The federal government seems to allow people to print top secret/classified documents to paper.
It's easier to check out the hard copy of a document like the library and then ddestroy it afterwards than to erase it's footprint on an electronic device. Safer than having it on a tablet in the Oval Office in many ways. Trump is getting caught because he thinks everyone is as sloppy as him. Archivists derive great joy over the OCD tracking of paper, he doesn't seem to get that they DO actually keep a detailed record of every piece of paper and where it is supposed to be.
Another random thought on this...I didn't see that they seized any computer equipment, but just physical documents. Trump could have easily scanned all the info in those documents in the 2 years that he had custody of them if he was planning on leveraging it somehow. It implies that the actual information in the files maybe isn't that important. If the info of those files really was important for nation security, they would have had to confiscate any and everything that might have electronic copies of it as well.

Similarly, for those that think he took the records to hide evidence of crimes that he committed. Doesn't that imply that these documents are original documents without copies? If they were print outs or copies that he had taken with him, all the evidence would already be in available via other copies or the original documents themselves.

On the other hand, if they are indeed unique original documents (of which the DoJ doesn't know the contents), if they contained evidence of crimes that Trump committed, why in the world would he keep them? Especially since there was quite a bit of forewarning that the DoJ wanted those documents.

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Re: Mar-a-lago Bebop

#16

Post by Hardartery » Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:09 pm

JonA wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:17 pm
Hardartery wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:39 am
JonA wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:29 am I can't get over the fact that they evidently called ahead and asked the staff to properly secure the documents. (Which they did)

There's all sorts of other revelations that, quite frankly, offend me. For example: The federal government seems to allow people to print top secret/classified documents to paper.
It's easier to check out the hard copy of a document like the library and then ddestroy it afterwards than to erase it's footprint on an electronic device. Safer than having it on a tablet in the Oval Office in many ways. Trump is getting caught because he thinks everyone is as sloppy as him. Archivists derive great joy over the OCD tracking of paper, he doesn't seem to get that they DO actually keep a detailed record of every piece of paper and where it is supposed to be.
Another random thought on this...I didn't see that they seized any computer equipment, but just physical documents. Trump could have easily scanned all the info in those documents in the 2 years that he had custody of them if he was planning on leveraging it somehow. It implies that the actual information in the files maybe isn't that important. If the info of those files really was important for nation security, they would have had to confiscate any and everything that might have electronic copies of it as well.

Similarly, for those that think he took the records to hide evidence of crimes that he committed. Doesn't that imply that these documents are original documents without copies? If they were print outs or copies that he had taken with him, all the evidence would already be in available via other copies or the original documents themselves.

On the other hand, if they are indeed unique original documents (of which the DoJ doesn't know the contents), if they contained evidence of crimes that Trump committed, why in the world would he keep them? Especially since there was quite a bit of forewarning that the DoJ wanted those documents.
The idea that these are originals and unique holds no water. The NARA knew what he had because they track it when they make a copy and give it to someone to read, like a library book. So, they knew exactly what he had not returned which makes the fact that he kept pretending to have returned everything even stupider than it would seem. Captain Dunning-Kruger just thinks averyone else is even dumber than he is, reinforced by surrounding himself with idiots.

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Re: Mar-a-lago Bebop

#17

Post by hector » Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:17 pm

Hardartery wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:09 pm
JonA wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:17 pm
Hardartery wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:39 am
JonA wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:29 am I can't get over the fact that they evidently called ahead and asked the staff to properly secure the documents. (Which they did)

There's all sorts of other revelations that, quite frankly, offend me. For example: The federal government seems to allow people to print top secret/classified documents to paper.
It's easier to check out the hard copy of a document like the library and then ddestroy it afterwards than to erase it's footprint on an electronic device. Safer than having it on a tablet in the Oval Office in many ways. Trump is getting caught because he thinks everyone is as sloppy as him. Archivists derive great joy over the OCD tracking of paper, he doesn't seem to get that they DO actually keep a detailed record of every piece of paper and where it is supposed to be.
Another random thought on this...I didn't see that they seized any computer equipment, but just physical documents. Trump could have easily scanned all the info in those documents in the 2 years that he had custody of them if he was planning on leveraging it somehow. It implies that the actual information in the files maybe isn't that important. If the info of those files really was important for nation security, they would have had to confiscate any and everything that might have electronic copies of it as well.

Similarly, for those that think he took the records to hide evidence of crimes that he committed. Doesn't that imply that these documents are original documents without copies? If they were print outs or copies that he had taken with him, all the evidence would already be in available via other copies or the original documents themselves.

On the other hand, if they are indeed unique original documents (of which the DoJ doesn't know the contents), if they contained evidence of crimes that Trump committed, why in the world would he keep them? Especially since there was quite a bit of forewarning that the DoJ wanted those documents.
The idea that these are originals and unique holds no water. The NARA knew what he had because they track it when they make a copy and give it to someone to read, like a library book. So, they knew exactly what he had not returned which makes the fact that he kept pretending to have returned everything even stupider than it would seem. Captain Dunning-Kruger just thinks averyone else is even dumber than he is, reinforced by surrounding himself with idiots.
NARA had the records before they were at Maralago?

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Re: Mar-a-lago Bebop

#18

Post by Hardartery » Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:20 pm

hector wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:17 pm
Hardartery wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:09 pm
JonA wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:17 pm
Hardartery wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:39 am
JonA wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:29 am I can't get over the fact that they evidently called ahead and asked the staff to properly secure the documents. (Which they did)

There's all sorts of other revelations that, quite frankly, offend me. For example: The federal government seems to allow people to print top secret/classified documents to paper.
It's easier to check out the hard copy of a document like the library and then ddestroy it afterwards than to erase it's footprint on an electronic device. Safer than having it on a tablet in the Oval Office in many ways. Trump is getting caught because he thinks everyone is as sloppy as him. Archivists derive great joy over the OCD tracking of paper, he doesn't seem to get that they DO actually keep a detailed record of every piece of paper and where it is supposed to be.
Another random thought on this...I didn't see that they seized any computer equipment, but just physical documents. Trump could have easily scanned all the info in those documents in the 2 years that he had custody of them if he was planning on leveraging it somehow. It implies that the actual information in the files maybe isn't that important. If the info of those files really was important for nation security, they would have had to confiscate any and everything that might have electronic copies of it as well.

Similarly, for those that think he took the records to hide evidence of crimes that he committed. Doesn't that imply that these documents are original documents without copies? If they were print outs or copies that he had taken with him, all the evidence would already be in available via other copies or the original documents themselves.

On the other hand, if they are indeed unique original documents (of which the DoJ doesn't know the contents), if they contained evidence of crimes that Trump committed, why in the world would he keep them? Especially since there was quite a bit of forewarning that the DoJ wanted those documents.
The idea that these are originals and unique holds no water. The NARA knew what he had because they track it when they make a copy and give it to someone to read, like a library book. So, they knew exactly what he had not returned which makes the fact that he kept pretending to have returned everything even stupider than it would seem. Captain Dunning-Kruger just thinks averyone else is even dumber than he is, reinforced by surrounding himself with idiots.
NARA had the records before they were at Maralago?
They always have them. That's who prints them off and stamps them with classifications. It's not just after the fact, they are involved all the way through. Like this stupid "How do we know they didn't add stuff to the boxes or plant evidence?" nonsense spouted by people like that tool Paul, because they had a list of what was missing before they drove over there that's how.

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Re: Mar-a-lago Bebop

#19

Post by hector » Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:25 pm

Hardartery wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:20 pm
hector wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:17 pm
Hardartery wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:09 pm
JonA wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:17 pm
Hardartery wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:39 am
JonA wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:29 am I can't get over the fact that they evidently called ahead and asked the staff to properly secure the documents. (Which they did)

There's all sorts of other revelations that, quite frankly, offend me. For example: The federal government seems to allow people to print top secret/classified documents to paper.
It's easier to check out the hard copy of a document like the library and then ddestroy it afterwards than to erase it's footprint on an electronic device. Safer than having it on a tablet in the Oval Office in many ways. Trump is getting caught because he thinks everyone is as sloppy as him. Archivists derive great joy over the OCD tracking of paper, he doesn't seem to get that they DO actually keep a detailed record of every piece of paper and where it is supposed to be.
Another random thought on this...I didn't see that they seized any computer equipment, but just physical documents. Trump could have easily scanned all the info in those documents in the 2 years that he had custody of them if he was planning on leveraging it somehow. It implies that the actual information in the files maybe isn't that important. If the info of those files really was important for nation security, they would have had to confiscate any and everything that might have electronic copies of it as well.

Similarly, for those that think he took the records to hide evidence of crimes that he committed. Doesn't that imply that these documents are original documents without copies? If they were print outs or copies that he had taken with him, all the evidence would already be in available via other copies or the original documents themselves.

On the other hand, if they are indeed unique original documents (of which the DoJ doesn't know the contents), if they contained evidence of crimes that Trump committed, why in the world would he keep them? Especially since there was quite a bit of forewarning that the DoJ wanted those documents.
The idea that these are originals and unique holds no water. The NARA knew what he had because they track it when they make a copy and give it to someone to read, like a library book. So, they knew exactly what he had not returned which makes the fact that he kept pretending to have returned everything even stupider than it would seem. Captain Dunning-Kruger just thinks averyone else is even dumber than he is, reinforced by surrounding himself with idiots.
NARA had the records before they were at Maralago?
They always have them. That's who prints them off and stamps them with classifications. It's not just after the fact, they are involved all the way through. Like this stupid "How do we know they didn't add stuff to the boxes or plant evidence?" nonsense spouted by people like that tool Paul, because they had a list of what was missing before they drove over there that's how.
You don't think the White House has their own classified printers? You think NARA prints out all classified documents on behalf of the White House?

(I think I'm misunderstanding you.)

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Hardartery
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Re: Mar-a-lago Bebop

#20

Post by Hardartery » Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:06 am

hector wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:25 pm
Hardartery wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:20 pm
hector wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:17 pm
Hardartery wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:09 pm
JonA wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:17 pm
Hardartery wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:39 am
JonA wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:29 am I can't get over the fact that they evidently called ahead and asked the staff to properly secure the documents. (Which they did)

There's all sorts of other revelations that, quite frankly, offend me. For example: The federal government seems to allow people to print top secret/classified documents to paper.
It's easier to check out the hard copy of a document like the library and then ddestroy it afterwards than to erase it's footprint on an electronic device. Safer than having it on a tablet in the Oval Office in many ways. Trump is getting caught because he thinks everyone is as sloppy as him. Archivists derive great joy over the OCD tracking of paper, he doesn't seem to get that they DO actually keep a detailed record of every piece of paper and where it is supposed to be.
Another random thought on this...I didn't see that they seized any computer equipment, but just physical documents. Trump could have easily scanned all the info in those documents in the 2 years that he had custody of them if he was planning on leveraging it somehow. It implies that the actual information in the files maybe isn't that important. If the info of those files really was important for nation security, they would have had to confiscate any and everything that might have electronic copies of it as well.

Similarly, for those that think he took the records to hide evidence of crimes that he committed. Doesn't that imply that these documents are original documents without copies? If they were print outs or copies that he had taken with him, all the evidence would already be in available via other copies or the original documents themselves.

On the other hand, if they are indeed unique original documents (of which the DoJ doesn't know the contents), if they contained evidence of crimes that Trump committed, why in the world would he keep them? Especially since there was quite a bit of forewarning that the DoJ wanted those documents.
The idea that these are originals and unique holds no water. The NARA knew what he had because they track it when they make a copy and give it to someone to read, like a library book. So, they knew exactly what he had not returned which makes the fact that he kept pretending to have returned everything even stupider than it would seem. Captain Dunning-Kruger just thinks averyone else is even dumber than he is, reinforced by surrounding himself with idiots.
NARA had the records before they were at Maralago?
They always have them. That's who prints them off and stamps them with classifications. It's not just after the fact, they are involved all the way through. Like this stupid "How do we know they didn't add stuff to the boxes or plant evidence?" nonsense spouted by people like that tool Paul, because they had a list of what was missing before they drove over there that's how.
You don't think the White House has their own classified printers? You think NARA prints out all classified documents on behalf of the White House?

(I think I'm misunderstanding you.)
There is no chance that there are printersdoing that with a connection to the database. Bureaucracy doesn't work that way, and none of the people talking about it in interviews dexscribe it that way. It is clearly described as the department that handles that (NARA in some form) prints and disseminates the documents and they are returned there for disposal or posterity. Everything that left there has to be accounted for. That's why staff had to pick up and reassemble stuff that Trump tore up. They do not play fast and loose with this stuff, that's just Trump ignoring convention for the sake of being a dick and causing extra work and aggravation for everyone around him.

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