Home gym: first buys

Bands, chains, wraps, straps, racks... are you sure this is training related?

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augeleven
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Re: Home gym: first buys

#21

Post by augeleven » Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:13 am

I have an irrational fear of the money and space spent on a leg press. I also have two power racks set up in my basement. Hmmm…

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Re: Home gym: first buys

#22

Post by KOTJ » Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:32 am

@augeleven get a combo unit...or get a lever or pendulum squat, and live my dream. Wish I could even try one out, but by all accounts they're awesome

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Re: Home gym: first buys

#23

Post by hector » Sun Aug 28, 2022 12:54 pm

KOTJ wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:08 am Everyone is overlooking the "leg press and/or hack squat"

*Even the "leg sled" version of a hack squat
*Hopefully a good combo leg press/hack squat

Also, an SSB diy version is simple, cheap, and effective



Because you can DIY an SSB with a normal bar, but can't DIY a decent leg press and/or hack squat with a normal bar, I'm a fan of the benefits of the leg press and/or hack squat.

I have nothing against an SSB in the mix.

@hector I'm sure you've heard this, but it sounds like something may be wrong with your form (of you have unfortunate weird shit going on) if high bar injures your shoulders.

Do you have any high bar lifting videos in your log?
KOTJ, high bar doesn't hurt my shoulders. It's just not my preference to squat high bar.
Low bar hurts my shoulders once I'm going heavier for high volume.
I'm sure my low bar form is sub-optimal, but at this point I just squat with a SSB.

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Re: Home gym: first buys

#24

Post by KOTJ » Sun Aug 28, 2022 1:10 pm

@hector oops, completely read that wrong.

I've wanted an SSB for a while, but since I've decided to make my garage a dedicated gym, I went with a combo machine first.

If I didn't get two back machines for cheap (relative), I'd be able to pull in most of a vehicle..maybe a full vehicle.

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Re: Home gym: first buys

#25

Post by hector » Sun Aug 28, 2022 5:53 pm

KOTJ wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 1:10 pm @hector oops, completely read that wrong.

I've wanted an SSB for a while, but since I've decided to make my garage a dedicated gym, I went with a combo machine first.

If I didn't get two back machines for cheap (relative), I'd be able to pull in most of a vehicle..maybe a full vehicle.
Same here. Gotta find a way to get more junk in the trunk.

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Re: Home gym: first buys

#26

Post by James » Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:04 pm

KOTJ wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:08 am
Also, an SSB diy version is simple, cheap, and effective
This is great for people with shoulder problems but isn't the other half of the reason to get a SSB that the bar's camber kicks the weight forward making it feel more between a front and Highbar squat?

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Re: Home gym: first buys

#27

Post by KOTJ » Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:21 pm

James wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:04 pm
KOTJ wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:08 am
Also, an SSB diy version is simple, cheap, and effective
This is great for people with shoulder problems but isn't the other half of the reason to get a SSB that the bar's camber kicks the weight forward making it feel more between a front and Highbar squat?
It can have that effect, but a lot of people use it specifically to avoid or help with shoulder and elbow fuckery.

If there are no injuries or issues with mobility, an SSB is not necessary, or more effective than other traditional barbell squat variations.

Of course, everything comes down to programming, and there are a lot of ways to get stronger.

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Re: Home gym: first buys

#28

Post by Hardartery » Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:07 pm

James wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:04 pm
KOTJ wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:08 am
Also, an SSB diy version is simple, cheap, and effective
This is great for people with shoulder problems but isn't the other half of the reason to get a SSB that the bar's camber kicks the weight forward making it feel more between a front and Highbar squat?
Where it puts the weight is a huge part of it. For guys with tendonitis/shoulder issues from Squats. it often is the bar flex that causes the problem. Using a Squat bar or a SSB eliminates that flex for the most part and is thus kinder to both elbow tendonitis and shouilder issues. The bonus of the SSB over the Squat Bar is that it does place the weight differently so it can be a novel stimulus when you work it in. I can literally Squat hands free with a SSB, no problem. if necessary. A leg press is fun, and if you have the room and the budget a fine addition, but it's still like isolation work and tends to have no carryover to the Squat or other lifts. Just to be clear for @KOTJ and others, I am not anti that equipment. The only thing I am anti is a Smith Machine, everything else has a place in training other than being a coat rack.

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Re: Home gym: first buys

#29

Post by KOTJ » Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:18 pm

The Smith machine definitely can be used effectively for strength and especially hypertrophy.

The effectiveness of anything, comes down to the programming.

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Re: Home gym: first buys

#30

Post by FredM » Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:14 pm

Allentown wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:30 am IMO, a good cardio machine is far higher on the list of home gym buys than a leg press or hack squat.
This.

Most people can probably squat/pull enough to see 98% of the benefits without worrying too much about overall spinal loading. I have small asian bones (I wear a woman's size ring and watch band) and arthritis in my lower back and I worked up to a 405+ squat and 450 pull at 185 lbs BW without ever doing a leg workout sans spinal loading. If your goal is to maximize your pull and squat potential then I'd agree a leg press or belt squat might be "necessary" but for anyone that doesn't actually care that much and just wants to be strong and jacked, you're going to get more utility out of a good cardio machine. Not because cardio is necessary (I don't really do it). But at a certain age (33 for me) warmups become non optional. Using my Echo bike for 3-5 min followed by some stretching is absolutely essential for me. I realize there are other modalities I could use that don't require a cardio machine but the ease/time efficiency is well worth it imo.

1. Barbell and plates
2. Rack or squat stands that allow pull ups and dip attachments
3. Cardio machine
4. Kettlebells or dumbbells (unilateral stuff is also less of an option now that I'm older). I prefer the utility of kettlebells.
5. Bench (Just do dips and OHP until you get a bench)
6. Dip belt (weighted dips and chins are amazing)

Things like SSB or swiss bars might be high the list if you need them to train productively. If you can't squat without shoulder pain, SSB probably is #3. Similarly if you can't press or dip without shoulder pain you should probably prioritize an angled bar right after the barbell and plates.

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Re: Home gym: first buys

#31

Post by KOTJ » Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:20 am

Cardio: the one thing that literally doesn't need anything to perform.

indoor cardio fucking suck slug cum.

if you have a bike, use it. if you cant use it outside, get a trainer. you can do something effective for $50 or $5000

im not sure why nobody realizes the advantage of being able to reduce systemic fatigue and accumulate effective stress for strength and hypertrophy in the glutes, quads, and hamstrings. This is a nice enhancement for anyone that performs athletic/physical competitions or sports other than powerlifting.

I know a lot of home gym owners don't compete in powerlifting, and just want to get as strong as they can. Aesthetics and athletic performance are not goals for many people. However, if you will be training by using good programming (not constant experimentation; if you're in this camp, id recommend you find a good coach, and invest enough training time for them to hone what works best for you as an individual), it is entirely reasonable your goals can be attained in the same or less time with blocks of hypertrophy work.

You can also do unilateral work, which is cool.




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Re: Home gym: first buys

#32

Post by Allentown » Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:13 am

KOTJ wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:20 am Cardio: the one thing that literally doesn't need anything to perform.

indoor cardio fucking suck slug cum.

if you have a bike, use it. if you cant use it outside, get a trainer. you can do something effective for $50 or $5000

im not sure why nobody realizes the advantage of being able to reduce systemic fatigue and accumulate effective stress for strength and hypertrophy in the glutes, quads, and hamstrings. This is a nice enhancement for anyone that performs athletic/physical competitions or sports other than powerlifting.
Echo is about 1,000 better than a bike or trainer. It's better than running outside. It's even better than the prowler.

Reduce fatigue and accumulate effective stress you can also just lower the weight and do more reps. No large footprint $1,000 machine necessary.

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Re: Home gym: first buys

#33

Post by hector » Wed Aug 31, 2022 11:40 am

Allentown wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:13 am
KOTJ wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:20 am Cardio: the one thing that literally doesn't need anything to perform.

indoor cardio fucking suck slug cum.

if you have a bike, use it. if you cant use it outside, get a trainer. you can do something effective for $50 or $5000

im not sure why nobody realizes the advantage of being able to reduce systemic fatigue and accumulate effective stress for strength and hypertrophy in the glutes, quads, and hamstrings. This is a nice enhancement for anyone that performs athletic/physical competitions or sports other than powerlifting.
Echo is about 1,000 better than a bike or trainer. It's better than running outside. It's even better than the prowler.

Reduce fatigue and accumulate effective stress you can also just lower the weight and do more reps. No large footprint $1,000 machine necessary.
What do you like about the Echo bike?
I've used one a few times and got smoked, but didn't really know what I was doing.
I love low intensity, steady state (zone 2 type stuff) biking.
Would be interested in your thoughts on Echo bike.

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Re: Home gym: first buys

#34

Post by Hardartery » Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:58 pm

hector wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 11:40 am
Allentown wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:13 am
KOTJ wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:20 am Cardio: the one thing that literally doesn't need anything to perform.

indoor cardio fucking suck slug cum.

if you have a bike, use it. if you cant use it outside, get a trainer. you can do something effective for $50 or $5000

im not sure why nobody realizes the advantage of being able to reduce systemic fatigue and accumulate effective stress for strength and hypertrophy in the glutes, quads, and hamstrings. This is a nice enhancement for anyone that performs athletic/physical competitions or sports other than powerlifting.
Echo is about 1,000 better than a bike or trainer. It's better than running outside. It's even better than the prowler.

Reduce fatigue and accumulate effective stress you can also just lower the weight and do more reps. No large footprint $1,000 machine necessary.
What do you like about the Echo bike?
I've used one a few times and got smoked, but didn't really know what I was doing.
I love low intensity, steady state (zone 2 type stuff) biking.
Would be interested in your thoughts on Echo bike.
I thought it was the most overrated, overpriced, overhyped thing I've used. I'd take a treadmill any day over it. It is slightly better than a Smith Machine though...

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Re: Home gym: first buys

#35

Post by KOTJ » Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:12 pm

Having used rowers, air bikes, and real bikes on dumb trainers (magnetic and fluid) and smart trainers (measures wattage, tons of general or specific programs available), I prefer real bikes on smart trainers.

You can get a smart trainer for the cost of an Echo.

It's nice to choose an app so you can make cardio into a video game. Your "character" can race against others on actual course/area layouts or video game areas.

I think it's smart to make sure cardio includes something requiring your feet walking or running, so if you ever go on a hike or something, your feet and calves have adaptation.

Again, everything comes down to programming quality for effectiveness.

For general fitness, anything works well.

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Re: Home gym: first buys

#36

Post by omaniphil » Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:41 pm

KOTJ wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:12 pm I think it's smart to make sure cardio includes something requiring your feet walking or running, so if you ever go on a hike or something, your feet and calves have adaptation.
Such a great point. At one point a couple of years ago, peak pandemic, I was putting around 120-150 miles on my bike a week. I thought I had great cardio, so my wife and I went on a weekend hiking trip. Nothing crazy, not too much climbing, maybe 10 miles a day for two days? I was a wreck and had terrible tendonitis that lasted for weeks after that.

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Re: Home gym: first buys

#37

Post by mbasic » Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:52 pm

KOTJ wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:24 am If you're planning on a home gym, everyone knows to get a power rack or squat rack, barbell, bench, and Olympic weights.

*Get an adjustable bench first, not a flat bench...unless you desperately need flat bench only.*

The only reason a squat rack should be considered over a power rack, is limited space.
all right .... yeah ...

The second piece of equipment should be a leg press and/or hack squat.


lol wut?

A decent one is usually expensive, heavy, tough to move around, takes up a lot space, requires a ton of plates (almost literally), etc.
A cheap and compact one usually turns out to be shite.
If a guy was to really go that route (had the room, $$$ was no issue, etc) .... I would get a retired used commercial version before risking a "compact one".

u r nuts

but go on ....
Everyone will deal with back injuries. Most people will have some shoulder, arm, elbow, or pec fuckery. A leg press and/or hack squat can be found in relatively compact versions, but there are no close substitutes for them.

Being able to eliminate or significantly reduce spinal loading and have less systemic fatigue, whole being able to produce significant lower body strength and hypertrophy, is something only possible with these machines.
pretty much:
Dumbbell unilateral anything is a good work around for back injuries.
I'll agree with the "no substitute for them" .... but maybe when you weigh in all of the barriers to owning one ... there some close alternate methods.

I have used the hack squat machine at my globo a ton, and love it.
No not disagreeing with their utility.

No way if I was a garage-gym-only-lifter-guy I'm buying one of those.
If I could get it for almost free .... maybe would do (if I was garage only, and had the room, which I don't)

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Re: Home gym: first buys

#38

Post by mbasic » Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:57 pm

My contribution to this thread:

After a:
- rack/cage,
- barbell & plates;
- adjustable bench; etc.
- and some other stuff ....

I'd say something akin to powerblocks dumbbells are a big plus.
Either powerblocks, or something similar.
Basically, a ton of upper body accessories, and unilateral lower body stuff can be done.
Hardly takes up any space.
They are cheesy, bu work and fit the bill.

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Re: Home gym: first buys

#39

Post by KOTJ » Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:23 pm

mbasic wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:52 pm
KOTJ wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:24 am If you're planning on a home gym, everyone knows to get a power rack or squat rack, barbell, bench, and Olympic weights.

*Get an adjustable bench first, not a flat bench...unless you desperately need flat bench only.*

The only reason a squat rack should be considered over a power rack, is limited space.
all right .... yeah ...

The second piece of equipment should be a leg press and/or hack squat.


lol wut?

A decent one is usually expensive, heavy, tough to move around, takes up a lot space, requires a ton of plates (almost literally), etc.
A cheap and compact one usually turns out to be shite.
If a guy was to really go that route (had the room, $$$ was no issue, etc) .... I would get a retired used commercial version before risking a "compact one".

u r nuts

but go on ....
Everyone will deal with back injuries. Most people will have some shoulder, arm, elbow, or pec fuckery. A leg press and/or hack squat can be found in relatively compact versions, but there are no close substitutes for them.

Being able to eliminate or significantly reduce spinal loading and have less systemic fatigue, whole being able to produce significant lower body strength and hypertrophy, is something only possible with these machines.
pretty much:
Dumbbell unilateral anything is a good work around for back injuries.
I'll agree with the "no substitute for them" .... but maybe when you weigh in all of the barriers to owning one ... there some close alternate methods.

I have used the hack squat machine at my globo a ton, and love it.
No not disagreeing with their utility.

No way if I was a garage-gym-only-lifter-guy I'm buying one of those.
If I could get it for almost free .... maybe would do (if I was garage only, and had the room, which I don't)
On Craigslist, eBay, and other sites, I have seen linear bearing/commercial leg presses, hack squats, and combo units sell for $500-2500.

Consider how many people spend $900-1300 on Ironmasters or other even a few thousand for fixed weight dumbbells, or $1000-2500 on power racks, pay hundreds extra for comp plates, have $1000+ of various barbells, or spend $1500+ for selectorized lat pulldown low row options, the leg press and/or hack squat is generally reasonably priced for many home gym budgets.

As I mentioned, using a cheap DIY pulley system, you can make a highly effective and good quality lat pulldown and low row, which allows a ton of accessory lifts for lower and upper body.

Regarding them being difficult to move, I'm not sure why you would need to frequently, let alone rarely move a leg press, hack squat, or combo unit.

Regarding them requiring a ton of plates, generally it's 70% for what you can squat, for a leg press. Given that these machines are typically used for volume accumulation, I'd be surprised if anyone with a sub 800lb squat would need a ton of plates.

This assumes that form is done correctly. Knee ROM for leg press and hack squat should allow depth like an ATG squat. If your knees touch your chest, something is incorrect or you're an outlier body type.

Anecdotally, people squatting around 550-600 max, will typically use 405-600 for moderate to higher volume work.

I agree, that if you do not have space for a leg press, hack squat, or combo unit, then it doesn't make sense to buy one. Likewise, if you cannot afford to buy one, then you cannot afford to buy one.

Given that a barbell, rack, adjustable bench, and DIY pulley system allow you to do all the compound lifts, as well as: leg curls, leg extensions, hip adductor and abductor exercises, cable pull throughs, shoulder excerise, curls, tricep work, neck work, trap work, chest exercises, glute exercises, etc.
...that is why I recommend a leg press, or a hack squat, or a combo unit, if you have space and can afford it.

For reference, the combo unit I ordered was $2200 shipped.

Footprint is either 94-96" long, 39" wide. Commercial unit on linear bearings, refurbished off eBay.

I have a 2 car garage dedicated as a home gym.
Last edited by KOTJ on Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Home gym: first buys

#40

Post by Allentown » Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:26 pm

hector wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 11:40 am What do you like about the Echo bike?
I've used one a few times and got smoked, but didn't really know what I was doing.
I love low intensity, steady state (zone 2 type stuff) biking.
Would be interested in your thoughts on Echo bike.
Bombproof
Nothing comes close to it's ability to increase heart rate
Easier than walking/running to maintain target HR during LISS
Can target upper body, lower body, or both
Quiet(er) than other cardio machines I have or have used
Indoors, so not weather dependent
KOTJ wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:12 pm I think it's smart to make sure cardio includes something requiring your feet walking or running, so if you ever go on a hike or something, your feet and calves have adaptation.

Again, everything comes down to programming quality for effectiveness.

For general fitness, anything works well.
Agree.

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