Kitchen Cabinets

[mgil]

WRT the lighting aspect of a kitchen:

The kitchen and bathroom are both rooms where under cabinet, overhead, and other accent lighting should be employed as possible. I have overhead recessed lighting, under cabinet (although not centrally wired) and hanging lights over the island. They all prove useful at separate times.

To a similar effect in my bathroom, when I remodeled it I put in recessed lights, upgraded the mirror and lights above, and took the opportunity to install some indirect lighting which has been a real help for those 0400 days in the bathroom where I need light but not a headache.

[Skid]

Time on market has a lot to do with the condition of the market. In a hot market like last years, ROI would be even worse.
My observation of home buyer psychology as a contractor obtaining a significant part of my business through real estate agents is that remodeling is an aspirational activity for many homebuyers. I would be surprised if this trend has not intensified in the last 10 years considering the proliferation of remodeling shows. Consequently, buyers are more likely to get excited about the $202,000 house that could use a kitchen remodel, than the $220 ,000 house with the brand new kitchen. If your before kitchen is terrible, to the point where it appears challenging to maintain sanitary conditions, then yes a remodel will shorten market time, Otherwise for a functional but dated kitchen like the before picture above, your cost evaluation should be based on your personal utility including enjoyment, not the belief you can get a positive ROI or easier sale
[/quote]

You think? Buy a house and then spend 3+ months on a major renovation where you can't even cook a meal? Many people max out their credit just buying the house much less plowing another $30k+ into a new kitchen.

I've bought and sold a few homes over the years and owned multi family rental units. Realters have always told me that kitchens and bathrooms are the most important areas to keep updated and in good condition for resale.

Your statement also goes against what many contractors do in my area, which is buy old homes, renovate (mostly kitchens and bathrooms) and sell at a profit.

[Hiphopapotamus]

There's a site called Cost vs. Value that generates estimated ROIs on any number of items, and for a local area vs. the country. I think you have to register or some bs, but you can then get a report run. I literally just heard about this a month or so ago. Anyway, according to them*, bathroom remodels were in the low 50s to 60s percent nation wide, depending on whether upscale etc. Kitchens were around 50 to 70 percent (the more "upscale" the remodel, the lower your return). Stuff like manufactured stone veneers and new garage doors were above 90%. YMMV, and those national numbers will definitely vary from your local numbers. I think they update this every year as well.

Edit: looks like the site is run by Remodeling magazine. Do with that information what you will.

*they are on the internet so obviously they must be accurate, trustworthy, and unbiased

[Philbert]

Time on market has a lot to do with the condition of the market. In a hot market like last years, ROI would be even worse.
My observation of home buyer psychology as a contractor obtaining a significant part of my business through real estate agents is that remodeling is an aspirational activity for many homebuyers. I would be surprised if this trend has not intensified in the last 10 years considering the proliferation of remodeling shows. Consequently, buyers are more likely to get excited about the $202,000 house that could use a kitchen remodel, than the $220 ,000 house with the brand new kitchen. If your before kitchen is terrible, to the point where it appears challenging to maintain sanitary conditions, then yes a remodel will shorten market time, Otherwise for a functional but dated kitchen like the before picture above, your cost evaluation should be based on your personal utility including enjoyment, not the belief you can get a positive ROI or easier sale

You think? Buy a house and then spend 3+ months on a major renovation where you can't even cook a meal? Many people max out their credit just buying the house much less plowing another $30k+ into a new kitchen.

I've bought and sold a few homes over the years and owned multi family rental units. Realters have always told me that kitchens and bathrooms are the most important areas to keep updated and in good condition for resale.

Your statement also goes against what many contractors do in my area, which is buy old homes, renovate (mostly kitchens and bathrooms) and sell at a profit.

They don't like doing it, they like thinking about it. Like this: "We could buy this three bedroom house with a newly remodeled kitchen, or with the same money we could buy this 4 bedroom house, and in 2-3 years when the house has appreciated we will take a home equity LOC and remodel the kitchen exactly the way we want it." They are not buying the house and redoing the kitchen immediately, hence the caveat that this does not apply to all kitchens.
Regarding contractors, if your have had extensive talks with the contractors in your area indicating that a successful flip includes buying a house with a useable kitchen and then redoing that kitchen, then the market in your location is much different than the market in Upstate NY was 20 years ago. There are also a lot of opportunities for cost efficiency in both labor and materials available to a contractor working a speculative remodel and not to the average homeowner.

[Skid]

Time on market has a lot to do with the condition of the market. In a hot market like last years, ROI would be even worse.
My observation of home buyer psychology as a contractor obtaining a significant part of my business through real estate agents is that remodeling is an aspirational activity for many homebuyers. I would be surprised if this trend has not intensified in the last 10 years considering the proliferation of remodeling shows. Consequently, buyers are more likely to get excited about the $202,000 house that could use a kitchen remodel, than the $220 ,000 house with the brand new kitchen. If your before kitchen is terrible, to the point where it appears challenging to maintain sanitary conditions, then yes a remodel will shorten market time, Otherwise for a functional but dated kitchen like the before picture above, your cost evaluation should be based on your personal utility including enjoyment, not the belief you can get a positive ROI or easier sale

You think? Buy a house and then spend 3+ months on a major renovation where you can't even cook a meal? Many people max out their credit just buying the house much less plowing another $30k+ into a new kitchen.

I've bought and sold a few homes over the years and owned multi family rental units. Realters have always told me that kitchens and bathrooms are the most important areas to keep updated and in good condition for resale.

Your statement also goes against what many contractors do in my area, which is buy old homes, renovate (mostly kitchens and bathrooms) and sell at a profit.

They don't like doing it, they like thinking about it. Like this: "We could buy this three bedroom house with a newly remodeled kitchen, or with the same money we could buy this 4 bedroom house, and in 2-3 years when the house has appreciated we will take a home equity LOC and remodel the kitchen exactly the way we want it." They are not buying the house and redoing the kitchen immediately, hence the caveat that this does not apply to all kitchens.
Regarding contractors, if your have had extensive talks with the contractors in your area indicating that a successful flip includes buying a house with a useable kitchen and then redoing that kitchen, then the market in your location is much different than the market in Upstate NY was 20 years ago. There are also a lot of opportunities for cost efficiency in both labor and materials available to a contractor working a speculative remodel and not to the average homeowner.

OK that makes sense.
I also live in an area with out of control real estate (Vancouver-Whistler corrider), but here and in other places I have lived contractors make a good living reno'ing/flipping homes. That model works when home prices are always rising I guess