Program recommendations?

All training and programming related queries and banter here

Moderators: mgil, chromoly, Manveer

Post Reply
CaptainAwesome
Registered User
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:27 pm
Age: 39

Program recommendations?

#1

Post by CaptainAwesome » Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:44 pm

Hi, new here. Found the place by accident. I guess you could call me an "early intermediate". I've got a "run out" of a 4 day texas method under my belt, so I have some rough 1RM data on the big four lifts. Kinda tired of getting the run around when I ask questions on the SS board, so I figure maybe a fresh setting with some new opinions will help. Biggest problem I have is my squat. I can't seem to get into the groove to get it to progress in terms of volume work without fucking exhausting me and leaving me with a lot of aches in various tendons in the following days. I even have to swallow a handful of ibuprofen pills before each squat workout to keep the pain away while I am lifting. Any suggestions out there for programming options appropriate for where I'm at now?

User avatar
augeleven
Registered User
Posts: 4449
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:47 pm
Location: 9th level
Age: 43

Re: Program recommendations?

#2

Post by augeleven » Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:58 pm

First three questions.
Eat more.



Just kidding.
I’ll let the smart people answer, but I’m here to say lifting shouldn’t make you eat ibuprofen on the regular.

Also, Have you seen the 2 week Montana Method?

User avatar
SnakePlissken
Registered User
Posts: 876
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:22 am
Age: 29

Re: Program recommendations?

#3

Post by SnakePlissken » Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:14 pm

augeleven wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:58 pm I’ll let the smart people answer, but I’m here to say lifting shouldn’t make you eat ibuprofen on the regular.
^ also this

I'll say from having done SS, the 3 and 4 day Texas Method a few years ago it was hard to get over the mindsets that I have to do ball busting workouts to feel accomplished and I kept a lot of my "purist" tendencies around like "the squat should be low bar and is superior in every way" type stuff. You may find yourself going down a rabbit hole thinking someone else has a perfect system and that'll be hard to get over as well.

My only recommendation is to experiment and get out of your comfort zone from the super strict programming ideology.
Personal favorites on lifting info are probably reading these forums, Alex Bromley and Greg Nuckols.

User avatar
alek
Registered User
Posts: 3155
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:11 pm
Location: 2 gainzZz goblinz
Age: 42

Re: Program recommendations?

#4

Post by alek » Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:30 pm

CaptainAwesome wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:44 pm Hi, new here. Found the place by accident. I guess you could call me an "early intermediate". I've got a "run out" of a 4 day texas method under my belt, so I have some rough 1RM data on the big four lifts. Kinda tired of getting the run around when I ask questions on the SS board, so I figure maybe a fresh setting with some new opinions will help. Biggest problem I have is my squat. I can't seem to get into the groove to get it to progress in terms of volume work without fucking exhausting me and leaving me with a lot of aches in various tendons in the following days. I even have to swallow a handful of ibuprofen pills before each squat workout to keep the pain away while I am lifting. Any suggestions out there for programming options appropriate for where I'm at now?
Welcome! I imagine you’ll find this place to be much more positively supportive than what you’ve gotten elsewhere.

Besides not having to eat ibuprofen, what are your goals? Do you now, or plan to, compete in powerlifting or similar?

User avatar
mgil
Shitpostmaster General
Posts: 8476
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:46 pm
Location: FlabLab©®
Age: 49

Re: Program recommendations?

#5

Post by mgil » Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:08 pm

@CaptainAwesome, sketch out your last two weeks of “successful” training.

MarkKO
Registered User
Posts: 2658
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:12 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Program recommendations?

#6

Post by MarkKO » Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:11 am

CaptainAwesome wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:44 pm Hi, new here. Found the place by accident. I guess you could call me an "early intermediate". I've got a "run out" of a 4 day texas method under my belt, so I have some rough 1RM data on the big four lifts. Kinda tired of getting the run around when I ask questions on the SS board, so I figure maybe a fresh setting with some new opinions will help. Biggest problem I have is my squat. I can't seem to get into the groove to get it to progress in terms of volume work without fucking exhausting me and leaving me with a lot of aches in various tendons in the following days. I even have to swallow a handful of ibuprofen pills before each squat workout to keep the pain away while I am lifting. Any suggestions out there for programming options appropriate for where I'm at now?
Welcome.

One, to echo what others have said, training shouldn't make you take painkillers. Or anti-inflammatories.

Second, the original 5/3/1 is a good place to start. I've run it for a while before and didn't do badly at all. My pick would be to do the Periodisation Bible assistance template. I would also avoid Beyond 5/3/1 and the even newer 5/3/1 Forever for a while if that's the route you want to take, not because they're bad (they aren't) but because the original is pretty much plug and play and that makes is very good. Be very, very conservative with training max too.

You could also try Base Building by Paul Carter. Good system, with good ideas. A little less 'accessible' than 5/3/1 but if you're prepared to read through it and think a bit it's likely worth the effort, and arguably leaves you more room to adapt as you go which is excellent.

No matter what you pick, if there's one thing I can offer as advice is to put as much, if not more effort into assistance work than the main lifts. They aren't garnish, they are an integral piece of the recipe. In particular, train your back from neck to #$*crack with vigour and ferocity, and train your abs. Also do single leg exercises. This will likely also help reduce discomfort.

Third, you can always throw up videos if you're comfortable doing so to get some general (or specific) feedback about technique.

Lastly, if you do find that any of the big four just plain hurt you no matter what there is zero requirement for you to do them as opposed to some variation that doesn't hurt. Unless you're a powerlifter, you don't need to squat, bench or deadlift ever. You can still get strong doing other things.

CaptainAwesome
Registered User
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:27 pm
Age: 39

Re: Program recommendations?

#7

Post by CaptainAwesome » Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:05 am

augeleven wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:58 pm First three questions.
Eat more.



Just kidding.
I’ll let the smart people answer, but I’m here to say lifting shouldn’t make you eat ibuprofen on the regular.

Also, Have you seen the 2 week Montana Method?
I almost screamed. That first three questions thing feels like the strength training equivalent of a tech support guy asking if you've tried turning it off and on again. While there are probably people out there who benefit from it, I don't think a guy who's read damn near every article on their site is one of them. Also, I don't really think I agree with the whole "rest forever between sets" approach, and I think it's part of what's fucked my squats up. They're the only exercise I wait 5 minutes+ between sets on. My upper body lifts and even when I foray into volume deadlifting I rest 3 at most generally, unless I am doing some kind of really intense peaking type stuff like the end of running out Texas Method was.

And no, never heard of the 2 week montana method. Does every state get its own method?
SnakePlissken wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:14 pm
I'll say from having done SS, the 3 and 4 day Texas Method a few years ago it was hard to get over the mindsets that I have to do ball busting workouts to feel accomplished and I kept a lot of my "purist" tendencies around like "the squat should be low bar and is superior in every way" type stuff. You may find yourself going down a rabbit hole thinking someone else has a perfect system and that'll be hard to get over as well.

My only recommendation is to experiment and get out of your comfort zone from the super strict programming ideology.
Personal favorites on lifting info are probably reading these forums, Alex Bromley and Greg Nuckols.
I am not married to any super strict ideology, hence why I'm here. I like the low bar squat and I do credit it with basically turning muscles like my hamstrings from an atrophied mess into fairly strong. When I first started, 5 reps at 95 pounds was actually very, very hard for me. Besides, my anthropometry makes just about any free weight squat into a posterior chain heavy squat. My torso is very short and my femurs quite long.

I do think the SSNLP is a great way to get started. But beyond that, I am not sure these guys have the best answers for post-novice programming, or if they do, they keep it behind the "wall of coaching". I'm sure coaching is worth it, but I'm not their demographic. It's a premium service, and I'm a security guard who makes 18 bucks on hour.
alek wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:30 pm
Welcome! I imagine you’ll find this place to be much more positively supportive than what you’ve gotten elsewhere.

Besides not having to eat ibuprofen, what are your goals? Do you now, or plan to, compete in powerlifting or similar?
Nah, I don't have competitive aspirations. I'm 38, and I've never been a natural athlete or anything. Right now I want to get to/surpass the 200/300/400/500 mark. I guess I'm not terribly far from those numbers on some lifts, although the press will probably take much longer to get there. After that? I don't know. Maybe work on bringing my weight down considerably while trying to keep the numbers as high as I can. I'm not a big blobby 300 pounds (can still look down and see all the equipment), but 300 pounds is still less than comfortable to weigh for aspects of everyday life.
mgil wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:08 pm @CaptainAwesome, sketch out your last two weeks of “successful” training.
Well, it's hard to objectively say what was "successful". Did I get the numbers I did from TM just from peaking, or was some real strength built? I was running what seems to be the most popular 4 day TM approach, with the intensity workout followed by a volume version of the related lift. So like intensity bench/volume press. I did run it with something I saw in another SSC's video where he had recommendations for baked-in resets for your volume workouts every time you move to smaller reps for the intensity workouts. I was later told this was wrong, but as far as I know they still have this video up.
MarkKO wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:11 am Welcome.

One, to echo what others have said, training shouldn't make you take painkillers. Or anti-inflammatories.

Second, the original 5/3/1 is a good place to start. I've run it for a while before and didn't do badly at all. My pick would be to do the Periodisation Bible assistance template. I would also avoid Beyond 5/3/1 and the even newer 5/3/1 Forever for a while if that's the route you want to take, not because they're bad (they aren't) but because the original is pretty much plug and play and that makes is very good. Be very, very conservative with training max too.

You could also try Base Building by Paul Carter. Good system, with good ideas. A little less 'accessible' than 5/3/1 but if you're prepared to read through it and think a bit it's likely worth the effort, and arguably leaves you more room to adapt as you go which is excellent.

No matter what you pick, if there's one thing I can offer as advice is to put as much, if not more effort into assistance work than the main lifts. They aren't garnish, they are an integral piece of the recipe. In particular, train your back from neck to #$*crack with vigour and ferocity, and train your abs. Also do single leg exercises. This will likely also help reduce discomfort.

Third, you can always throw up videos if you're comfortable doing so to get some general (or specific) feedback about technique.

Lastly, if you do find that any of the big four just plain hurt you no matter what there is zero requirement for you to do them as opposed to some variation that doesn't hurt. Unless you're a powerlifter, you don't need to squat, bench or deadlift ever. You can still get strong doing other things.
Well, the squat USED TO not hurt. When I started I actually found a lot of aches and pains I had in my leg went away. But as I kept trying to push the squat up as hard as I could, they came back. I'll look into your recommendations. I've recently begun adding in more assistance type stuff. I like the rest-pause type method Andy Baker seems to really push these days, simply because it lets me get in a bunch of very hard reps on the assistance work without spending a ton of extra time. But that's for upper body, lower body I have a problem doing assistance with simply because it just takes so damn long to do the main work that all I've got time for is some lat pulldowns and then I have to get the hell out of there to have enough time to eat dinner and go to bed.

MarkKO
Registered User
Posts: 2658
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:12 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Program recommendations?

#8

Post by MarkKO » Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:08 am

CaptainAwesome wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:05 am
augeleven wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:58 pm First three questions.
Eat more.



Just kidding.
I’ll let the smart people answer, but I’m here to say lifting shouldn’t make you eat ibuprofen on the regular.

Also, Have you seen the 2 week Montana Method?
I almost screamed. That first three questions thing feels like the strength training equivalent of a tech support guy asking if you've tried turning it off and on again. While there are probably people out there who benefit from it, I don't think a guy who's read damn near every article on their site is one of them. Also, I don't really think I agree with the whole "rest forever between sets" approach, and I think it's part of what's fucked my squats up. They're the only exercise I wait 5 minutes+ between sets on. My upper body lifts and even when I foray into volume deadlifting I rest 3 at most generally, unless I am doing some kind of really intense peaking type stuff like the end of running out Texas Method was.

And no, never heard of the 2 week montana method. Does every state get its own method?
SnakePlissken wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:14 pm
I'll say from having done SS, the 3 and 4 day Texas Method a few years ago it was hard to get over the mindsets that I have to do ball busting workouts to feel accomplished and I kept a lot of my "purist" tendencies around like "the squat should be low bar and is superior in every way" type stuff. You may find yourself going down a rabbit hole thinking someone else has a perfect system and that'll be hard to get over as well.

My only recommendation is to experiment and get out of your comfort zone from the super strict programming ideology.
Personal favorites on lifting info are probably reading these forums, Alex Bromley and Greg Nuckols.
I am not married to any super strict ideology, hence why I'm here. I like the low bar squat and I do credit it with basically turning muscles like my hamstrings from an atrophied mess into fairly strong. When I first started, 5 reps at 95 pounds was actually very, very hard for me. Besides, my anthropometry makes just about any free weight squat into a posterior chain heavy squat. My torso is very short and my femurs quite long.

I do think the SSNLP is a great way to get started. But beyond that, I am not sure these guys have the best answers for post-novice programming, or if they do, they keep it behind the "wall of coaching". I'm sure coaching is worth it, but I'm not their demographic. It's a premium service, and I'm a security guard who makes 18 bucks on hour.
alek wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:30 pm
Welcome! I imagine you’ll find this place to be much more positively supportive than what you’ve gotten elsewhere.

Besides not having to eat ibuprofen, what are your goals? Do you now, or plan to, compete in powerlifting or similar?
Nah, I don't have competitive aspirations. I'm 38, and I've never been a natural athlete or anything. Right now I want to get to/surpass the 200/300/400/500 mark. I guess I'm not terribly far from those numbers on some lifts, although the press will probably take much longer to get there. After that? I don't know. Maybe work on bringing my weight down considerably while trying to keep the numbers as high as I can. I'm not a big blobby 300 pounds (can still look down and see all the equipment), but 300 pounds is still less than comfortable to weigh for aspects of everyday life.
mgil wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:08 pm @CaptainAwesome, sketch out your last two weeks of “successful” training.
Well, it's hard to objectively say what was "successful". Did I get the numbers I did from TM just from peaking, or was some real strength built? I was running what seems to be the most popular 4 day TM approach, with the intensity workout followed by a volume version of the related lift. So like intensity bench/volume press. I did run it with something I saw in another SSC's video where he had recommendations for baked-in resets for your volume workouts every time you move to smaller reps for the intensity workouts. I was later told this was wrong, but as far as I know they still have this video up.
MarkKO wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:11 am Welcome.

One, to echo what others have said, training shouldn't make you take painkillers. Or anti-inflammatories.

Second, the original 5/3/1 is a good place to start. I've run it for a while before and didn't do badly at all. My pick would be to do the Periodisation Bible assistance template. I would also avoid Beyond 5/3/1 and the even newer 5/3/1 Forever for a while if that's the route you want to take, not because they're bad (they aren't) but because the original is pretty much plug and play and that makes is very good. Be very, very conservative with training max too.

You could also try Base Building by Paul Carter. Good system, with good ideas. A little less 'accessible' than 5/3/1 but if you're prepared to read through it and think a bit it's likely worth the effort, and arguably leaves you more room to adapt as you go which is excellent.

No matter what you pick, if there's one thing I can offer as advice is to put as much, if not more effort into assistance work than the main lifts. They aren't garnish, they are an integral piece of the recipe. In particular, train your back from neck to #$*crack with vigour and ferocity, and train your abs. Also do single leg exercises. This will likely also help reduce discomfort.

Third, you can always throw up videos if you're comfortable doing so to get some general (or specific) feedback about technique.

Lastly, if you do find that any of the big four just plain hurt you no matter what there is zero requirement for you to do them as opposed to some variation that doesn't hurt. Unless you're a powerlifter, you don't need to squat, bench or deadlift ever. You can still get strong doing other things.
Well, the squat USED TO not hurt. When I started I actually found a lot of aches and pains I had in my leg went away. But as I kept trying to push the squat up as hard as I could, they came back. I'll look into your recommendations. I've recently begun adding in more assistance type stuff. I like the rest-pause type method Andy Baker seems to really push these days, simply because it lets me get in a bunch of very hard reps on the assistance work without spending a ton of extra time. But that's for upper body, lower body I have a problem doing assistance with simply because it just takes so damn long to do the main work that all I've got time for is some lat pulldowns and then I have to get the hell out of there to have enough time to eat dinner and go to bed.
Bang for buck would be superset sissy squats and back raises. Three sets of 20 each, don't rest between the sissies and raises and maybe a minute between rounds.

The whole rest between sets thing is silly. If you get accustomed to it, you can go somewhere between 60 and 90 seconds between reasonably hard sets. What I like to do is give myself a maximum time of 10 minutes to complete 5x5, for example. You do that for a while and then if you have a really tough set coming up you rest for three minutes or so and you're completely recovered.

User avatar
SnakePlissken
Registered User
Posts: 876
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:22 am
Age: 29

Re: Program recommendations?

#9

Post by SnakePlissken » Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:16 am

CaptainAwesome wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:05 am
SnakePlissken wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:14 pm
I'll say from having done SS, the 3 and 4 day Texas Method a few years ago it was hard to get over the mindsets that I have to do ball busting workouts to feel accomplished and I kept a lot of my "purist" tendencies around like "the squat should be low bar and is superior in every way" type stuff. You may find yourself going down a rabbit hole thinking someone else has a perfect system and that'll be hard to get over as well.

My only recommendation is to experiment and get out of your comfort zone from the super strict programming ideology.
Personal favorites on lifting info are probably reading these forums, Alex Bromley and Greg Nuckols.
I am not married to any super strict ideology, hence why I'm here. I like the low bar squat and I do credit it with basically turning muscles like my hamstrings from an atrophied mess into fairly strong. When I first started, 5 reps at 95 pounds was actually very, very hard for me. Besides, my anthropometry makes just about any free weight squat into a posterior chain heavy squat. My torso is very short and my femurs quite long.

I do think the SSNLP is a great way to get started. But beyond that, I am not sure these guys have the best answers for post-novice programming, or if they do, they keep it behind the "wall of coaching". I'm sure coaching is worth it, but I'm not their demographic. It's a premium service, and I'm a security guard who makes 18 bucks on hour.
Sounds like we both have the short torso/long legs thing. I actually prefer low bar as well and the "looking down" cue I find actually works well for me, but overtime I've evolved into more of an "upright lowbar" where I keep my feet closer together, look forward and keep my back more upright while having the bar rest in the "low bar" position. Something I experimented with over the last few years and I find my squat feels more stable and my quads are being used rather than just relying on my hips. My point is just to try out some different exercises and variations. For me, squatting never made my hamstrings large or strong; for that RDLs are my bread and butter.

CaptainAwesome
Registered User
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:27 pm
Age: 39

Re: Program recommendations?

#10

Post by CaptainAwesome » Tue Sep 27, 2022 5:29 am

MarkKO wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:08 amThe whole rest between sets thing is silly. If you get accustomed to it, you can go somewhere between 60 and 90 seconds between reasonably hard sets. What I like to do is give myself a maximum time of 10 minutes to complete 5x5, for example. You do that for a while and then if you have a really tough set coming up you rest for three minutes or so and you're completely recovered.
How would you recommend doing this? Just 5x5ing with quicker rests at lighter weight and work up while keeping the rests short?

User avatar
5hout
Registered User
Posts: 1556
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:32 am

Re: Program recommendations?

#11

Post by 5hout » Tue Sep 27, 2022 5:47 am

CaptainAwesome wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 5:29 am
MarkKO wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:08 amThe whole rest between sets thing is silly. If you get accustomed to it, you can go somewhere between 60 and 90 seconds between reasonably hard sets. What I like to do is give myself a maximum time of 10 minutes to complete 5x5, for example. You do that for a while and then if you have a really tough set coming up you rest for three minutes or so and you're completely recovered.
How would you recommend doing this? Just 5x5ing with quicker rests at lighter weight and work up while keeping the rests short?
Yes, basically just start at a weight you can do 60 seconds strict for 5x5 and go from there. It was, personally, game changing in terms of lifting efficiency. Also, a little cardio bump/general physical preparedness bump is a good thing (not a bad thing).

I'd strongly recommend trying some of the Montana Method spreadsheets that are floating around here (search "Montana Method"). It's a great transition away from Texas Method. Enough heavy to be fun, enough not-heavy to not break your body and a good amount of lifting variation to stay fresh. If you set the weights ligthish (you can always go up 5-10% next week) it's a great way to wean off Texas/High Rest into a more varied program. That said, you could use basically any non-Texas intermediate program and it'd probably work out to within a few % points. Heck, you could Texas with a bunch of accessory work and appropriate weights and it'd probably work.

If you're having pain/being beat up issue I'll tell you the secret (when this forum dies it'll be the epithet on its grave stone) "For the love of all that is holy, you can make gains without grinding yourself to death".

Each rep generates fatigue and gains you some stimulus. A good hard push, not a grind, just a rep you have to cleanly (but firmly) push through gains you the most stimulus per fatigue. Given your training history you could do these for years and make progress.

Ok, you can stop right there. The other bit of nuance (and you don't need this) is: On set 1 this might be rep 3, on set 2 it might be rep 5, on set 3 it might be rep 4, on set 4 it might be rep 4 again (assuming constant weight) (or you could vary the weights). The point is this: The goal isn't to lift heavy shit up and down, it's to provide appropriate stimulus to the muscles so you can lift heavy shit up and down once they adapt. If you provide that stimulus, you've had a good workout. Like you (and many here) I came through the Texas Method as well. People that have been running that and having "fun" aren't going to cheat themselves under (and not go heavy enough/i.e. lying to self and saying "that was RPE 9" when it was actually RPE 7). They're usually going to cheat themselves over and pretend it was a clean/firm/snappy rep when it was a musclefucked grindy shitshow.

Go in the gym. Lift heavy enough to be hardish, but still clean/firm/snappy. Do this 3-4 times per week. Do some cardio. Do some stretching. Do some accessory work. You'll feel great and make gains for a long time.

AlanMackey
Registered User
Posts: 227
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:17 am

Re: Program recommendations?

#12

Post by AlanMackey » Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:04 am

CaptainAwesome wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 5:29 amHow would you recommend doing this? Just 5x5ing with quicker rests at lighter weight and work up while keeping the rests short?
Giving myself permission to lift without going balls to the wall every fucking time is one of the hardest thing I’ve ever done training-wise.

ChasingCurls69
Registered User
Posts: 1512
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:43 am

Re: Program recommendations?

#13

Post by ChasingCurls69 » Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:25 am

CaptainAwesome wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:44 pm Hi, new here. Found the place by accident. I guess you could call me an "early intermediate". I've got a "run out" of a 4 day texas method under my belt, so I have some rough 1RM data on the big four lifts. Kinda tired of getting the run around when I ask questions on the SS board, so I figure maybe a fresh setting with some new opinions will help. Biggest problem I have is my squat. I can't seem to get into the groove to get it to progress in terms of volume work without fucking exhausting me and leaving me with a lot of aches in various tendons in the following days. I even have to swallow a handful of ibuprofen pills before each squat workout to keep the pain away while I am lifting. Any suggestions out there for programming options appropriate for where I'm at now?
How familiar are you with RPE? I like Barbell Medicine, Calgary Barbell, and TSA for set programs, and Stronger By Science gets a lot of praise although I haven't looked it over as carefully.

I would say pick something that is autoregulates by RPE since velocity is probably less viable as an option, and look for something with most of the main lift volume between 65-75% and 1-2 sets at 80% or more in a given workout on the main lifts. plus more movement variety/assistance than Texas Method stuff.

CaptainAwesome
Registered User
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:27 pm
Age: 39

Re: Program recommendations?

#14

Post by CaptainAwesome » Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:56 am

ChasingCurls69 wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:25 am
CaptainAwesome wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:44 pm Hi, new here. Found the place by accident. I guess you could call me an "early intermediate". I've got a "run out" of a 4 day texas method under my belt, so I have some rough 1RM data on the big four lifts. Kinda tired of getting the run around when I ask questions on the SS board, so I figure maybe a fresh setting with some new opinions will help. Biggest problem I have is my squat. I can't seem to get into the groove to get it to progress in terms of volume work without fucking exhausting me and leaving me with a lot of aches in various tendons in the following days. I even have to swallow a handful of ibuprofen pills before each squat workout to keep the pain away while I am lifting. Any suggestions out there for programming options appropriate for where I'm at now?
How familiar are you with RPE? I like Barbell Medicine, Calgary Barbell, and TSA for set programs, and Stronger By Science gets a lot of praise although I haven't looked it over as carefully.

I would say pick something that is autoregulates by RPE since velocity is probably less viable as an option, and look for something with most of the main lift volume between 65-75% and 1-2 sets at 80% or more in a given workout on the main lifts. plus more movement variety/assistance than Texas Method stuff.
I recently starting running something based on a program andy baker sells thats a 4 day texas method type schedule but it runs into the next week. So you get 3 days a week in the gym with 4 day type trsining times. Lots of good oportunity for assistance and ive been trying to get more in. Ive been doing 70% for my 5x5, and intensity 5s started at 80%. My original thinking was i would get more recovery time for my squat from this. Im thinking maybe ill sub out the squats for this fast 5x5 thing on both lower days until i can get close to the desired volume weight. Cant imagine lighter weights like that are gonna demand intensive recovery.

Ive never subscribed to the demonization of rpe, but i dont have a ton of faith in my ability to use it. I do try to keep some idea of where im at in terms of rir, and if i feel like i dont have another rep in me i know a change is needed unless im about to attempt some kinda pr. But i recently tried an amrap on a weight i thought would be rpe 8 at five reps, and even as a fifth set i cranked out 10 full reps. I dont think im ready to make effective use of rpe.
Last edited by CaptainAwesome on Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

dw
Registered User
Posts: 1501
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:35 pm

Re: Program recommendations?

#15

Post by dw » Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:05 am

You can employ amrap sets regularly. Also you may find that you make progress just fine with consistently inaccurate RPEs.

CaptainAwesome
Registered User
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:27 pm
Age: 39

Re: Program recommendations?

#16

Post by CaptainAwesome » Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:18 am

dw wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:05 am You can employ amrap sets regularly. Also you may find that you make progress just fine with consistently inaccurate RPEs.
Maybe, but i like baby steps when it comes to programming changes. Rpe feels like a change not only in programming but in mindset. Id rather try something like programming not rpe based and just rating my sets without the ratings guiding the program before jumping into programming with it.

User avatar
augeleven
Registered User
Posts: 4449
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:47 pm
Location: 9th level
Age: 43

Re: Program recommendations?

#17

Post by augeleven » Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:53 am

That Montana Method I mentioned. I think we need 48 more state-based templates to complete the Franklin Mint Commemorative set.

viewtopic.php?t=1456

A lot of people had some luck with this, especially after spinning their gears on Starting Strength/Practical Programming type training. There are a bunch of threads on the subject you could dig up detailing the thought process behind the DUP setup it uses.

User avatar
JohnHelton
Registered User
Posts: 4436
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:17 pm
Location: Bozeman, MT
Age: 51
Contact:

Re: Program recommendations?

#18

Post by JohnHelton » Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:20 am

This is Hanley's revised MM template:

https://exodus-strength.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3421

User avatar
alek
Registered User
Posts: 3155
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:11 pm
Location: 2 gainzZz goblinz
Age: 42

Re: Program recommendations?

#19

Post by alek » Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:33 am

CaptainAwesome wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:05 am Nah, I don't have competitive aspirations. I'm 38, and I've never been a natural athlete or anything. Right now I want to get to/surpass the 200/300/400/500 mark. I guess I'm not terribly far from those numbers on some lifts, although the press will probably take much longer to get there. After that? I don't know. Maybe work on bringing my weight down considerably while trying to keep the numbers as high as I can. I'm not a big blobby 300 pounds (can still look down and see all the equipment), but 300 pounds is still less than comfortable to weigh for aspects of everyday life.
Given that, I'd echo what a few others have already recommended, which is Hanley's Montana Method. @Hanley is a former SSC turned cunt, and he was kind enough to share a really good program with us. There are a couple links above already about it, and if you're looking to make a slowish transition from TM to something else, then you may be happy with something like MM.

One of the best things about it is a lot of people have been able to either maintain or increase their strength without grinding themselves to dust while doing it. Plus it made me pretty once upon a time.

CaptainAwesome
Registered User
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:27 pm
Age: 39

Re: Program recommendations?

#20

Post by CaptainAwesome » Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:05 am

Not sure its for me. Seems like powerlufting focused, and thats not my bag. Im also not keen to be in the gym 5 days, even if the sessions may be shorter. I do like to look at and think about effective programming though, so maybe stuff there will be useful to me in the future. Given whats been said, i think ive been fucked by two things generally:

1. The "just rest forever" line of advice. This has probably left me pretty deconditioned for volume squatting. Getting an lp squat to 300 likely was not worth this. Im gonna seize on advice ive gotten here and see if i can improve this.

2. Using power clean/snatch for deadlift volume. I am not even able to do one of these for 200, i dont think using them is helping my 400+ deadlift.

Post Reply