Program recommendations?

[convergentsum]

I was not expecting that.

I golfed pretty occasionally since I was 7 or so. Generally my handicap is about 20. If I decide I want to not suck at golf, I can (and have) golf every weekend in a summer and end up with <10 handicap. I'm pretty confident if I did this for four years I'd be a scratch golfer.

I was always decent at math. When I realized there were people a lot better than me at it in HS I studied every summer to place out of math classes until I literally ran out (Calc 3) before senior year. I'm pretty confident if I did that for 4+ more years I could have had a PhD in Math from a good school.

When I started strength training 4 years ago I ended my LP with a 3pl8 squat, 2pl8 bench, and 4pl8 pull. Again. Would classify myself as decent. Like absolutely everything I try in life I'm exceedingly average at a baseline. So I decided I wanted to be good at lifting and here I am 4 years later with... checking ... a 3pl8 squat, 2pl8 bench and <4pl8 pull. And yes. I'm more than 30 lbs lighter. My squat is 4 inches deeper. I don't actually pull regularly. But it's hard to ignore the data.

So by "suck at" I guess I really mean "suck at getting better at," which, to me, is the same thing.

Hmm. I don't golf, but I do math, and I wouldn't make that assumption. And my default opinion would be that it's a lot easier to get the handicap from 20 to 10 than it is to get it from 10 down to 0.
Also, you're down playing how much of a big deal 30lbs lighter is. In conclusion, I expect you're better at lifting than you imaging but also a little bit less awesome than you think at everything else

[FredM]

Hmm. I don't golf, but I do math, and I wouldn't make that assumption. And my default opinion would be that it's a lot easier to get the handicap from 20 to 10 than it is to get it from 10 down to 0.
Also, you're down playing how much of a big deal 30lbs lighter is. In conclusion, I expect you're better at lifting than you imaging but also a little bit less awesome than you think at everything else

That's why I gave myself four years instead of a summer

Fair point. I'm pretty awesome at math, though . I'm a huge nerd and comparing intellectual pursuits to physical pursuits is stupid.

I'm obviously being dramatic but generally -- like most people I've met -- I don't stick with something for this long that I'm not naturally good at. My general point was, I'm exceptionally bad at learning lessons and applying them to lifting. Not that my numbers make me "suck." I literally suck at learning this skill. Programming. Dieting. Etc. While there is definitely a part of me that is doing this for my general health (the bigger part) there's still a huge part of me that's genuinely curious just how long I have to do this for until I'm not half bad at it.

[perman]

Who knows why some people enjoy long term progress and others don't? I'm convinced a huge part of the difference lies in body composition control, as in whether you're gradually dieting or gradually bulking over the years. I've lifted for 10 years, and the overarching goal has been to gradually get my body fat percentage down to a good level I can oscillate around. Still haven't gotten there. Instead I've rather cut, maintained, gain some fat in bad periods of low training/high stress, repeat.
I'm convinced that if I started lean and did traditional bulking and cutting, that would have helped a lot.
I'm 16 kg less than my top weight and stronger than I was at that weight, so I've definitely had gradual progress, but it's inefficient to spend too much of your lifting time not putting on mass.
Those people that have the eating under control can just gradually add muscle mass and see gradual gains.

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

Who knows why some people enjoy long term progress and others don't? I'm convinced a huge part of the difference lies in body composition whether you're gradually dieting or gradually bulking over the years. I've lifted for 10 years, and the overarching goal has been to gradually get my body fat percentage down to a good level I can oscillate around. Still haven't gotten there. Instead I've rather cut, maintained, gain some fat in bad periods of low training/high stress, repeat.
I'm convinced that if I started lean and did traditional bulking and cutting, that would have helped a lot.
I'm 16 kg less than my top weight and stronger than I was at that weight, so I've definitely had gradual progress, but it's inefficient to spend too much of your lifting time not putting on mass.
Those people that have the eating under control can just gradually add muscle mass and see gradual gains.

Oh absolutely. It does not help that a lot of lifting gurus give nutrition advice that is just completely, utterly bogus.

[51M0N]

Thought I would hijack this thread to ask for recommendations for hypertrophy focused programs that are good to do in a well stocked home gym. Top of my mind is SBS hypertrophy program, but I've ran that before and thought it might be nice to do something new.

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

Thought I would hijack this thread to ask for recommendations for hypertrophy focused programs that are good to do in a well stocked home gym. Top of my mind is SBS hypertrophy program, but I've ran that before and thought it might be nice to do something new.

Are you looking for a powerlifting hypertrophy program (like what you'd do if you were an offseason powerlifter trying to gain useful muscle to improve your big lifts in a latter period) or a bodybuilding template ?

For the former I think that SBS Hypertrophy is good, especially for the homegym situation, where you are going to get most volume from variants of the big lifts. Another option would be the "Untamed Program" that Allan Thrall, which is available for free, more in the spirit of RTS / BBM. Yet another decent free option would be a 5/3/1 variant (there's many of them like building the monolith, beefcake etc).

For the latter I think that RP-style training is pretty good (they have paid templates but if you consume enough of their content you'd probably be able to design something even better than a paid template for free). The only caveat when I tried it was that, since those programs sometimes involve doing A LOT of sets, doing all of your volume with big barbell exercises might possibly mess you up. So you have to be intelligent with your exercise selection and not just do 20 sets of high bar squats for your quads (i guess some people can do that but probably not everybody).

Note that I only recommend things that I've tried on myself. So there are probably a thousand more good options. If a program is designed by a reputable coach and you're motivated to do it then you'd probably get results anyhow. Especially for hypertrophy which is "the low hanging fruit of training" (I stole this quote from @Hanley ).

[51M0N]

I was more thinking a BB template. The main issue I run into is legs. Most BB templates (even the SBS one) are machine based, and swapping in more squats leaves me beat up.

This one by Andy Baker is close to what I'm after but would be better if it was 4 days https://www.andybaker.com/a-plan-for-an ... -december/

Could probably swap hack squat for split squats and lunges, not sure what to do about pulldowns.

[KOTJ]

Thought I would hijack this thread to ask for recommendations for hypertrophy focused programs that are good to do in a well stocked home gym. Top of my mind is SBS hypertrophy program, but I've ran that before and thought it might be nice to do something new.

Barbell only? Cable machine? Lat pulldown/low row?

[51M0N]

Barbells and dumbbells only (plus bands). Plan is to get one of these eventually but will be a few more years before I can fit it in the budget.

https://www.fitek.com.au/product/fitek-transformer/

[quikky]

Barbells and dumbbells only (plus bands). Plan is to get one of these eventually but will be a few more years before I can fit it in the budget.

https://www.fitek.com.au/product/fitek-transformer/

If you get a high and low pulley, you can do a lot of things at home. I use them for leg curls, leg extensions, bicep/tricep cable work, lat pulls, seated rows, etc. Both can be had for about $200 last time I checked, plus another $20-50 for attachments.

For legs, you can do lunges, split squats, step ups, hip thrusts, and even belt squats if you have a belt to use.

[EggMcMuffin]

What the fuck do I do if I only want to bench and squat and occasionally deadlift? Need to prioritize other things, but don't want to fall off the wagon. I also want to squat 405 to shore up my fragile ego.

[James]

Bulgarian lite/HFHI . Squat and bench five to seven times a week to a minimum single (80%~) then work to a daily max single (90%~) and try to hit a PR when you're feeling good raising your min and max when you hit one. Deadlift a couple light singles once a week.

[Hardartery]

What the fuck do I do if I only want to bench and squat and occasionally deadlift? Need to prioritize other things, but don't want to fall off the wagon. I also want to squat 405 to shore up my fragile ego.

Day 1
Squats
Shoulder accessory work - posterior stuff, no anterior work. No pecs or anterioir delts. Rear Flyes, Laterals, Shrugs even if that thrills you.
maybe some light triceps accessory work

Day 2
Bench
Anterior work. Maybe Flyes, Front Raises

Day 3
Posterior Chain Accessories - RDL, Goodmornings, SLDL variation, pick one
Back Accessories - Pull Overs, Pull downs, Chinups, Rows - pick the variation that hits your weak point, experiment.
Triceps - JM Press, Skull Crushers, Cross Body Extensions..etc.. pick one or two that you liek and pound the tri's into the ground
Biceps - pick one or two things, burn the bi's until they don't move but don't use more than two exercises or much time. This is mostly for beach muscle, but vanity you know.

All done. Rep scheme is up to you. 5 x 5 is good, 3 x 5 is good. Push higher reps on the accessories. Easy system, easy recovery, gets out some frustrations.

[SnakePlissken]

Bulgarian lite/HFHI . Squat and bench five to seven times a week to a minimum single (80%~) then work to a daily max single (90%~) and try to hit a PR when you're feeling good raising your min and max when you hit one. Deadlift a couple light singles once a week.

From the Nuckols ebook? I've always been interested in trying this, but I also don't want to get the Pokemon mindset that you win if you do get all the programs out there. Nuckols seems to have written it out well though.

[James]

Yeah it is and I'm probably off a bit because I'm going off memory.

It's fun, especially if you're the type who likes/wants to lift every day. There's also a modification that instead of a daily max you try to hit a variation PR of different reps. Like 8rm paused squat one day then 3rm pin squat the next and so on.

I did for I think two months and liked it before the training ADHD kicked in. I think it helped get me used to just treating heavy squats as any other rep. It's like the no hype 1@8 in rts programming taken to an extreme.

[FredM]

What the fuck do I do if I only want to bench and squat and occasionally deadlift? Need to prioritize other things, but don't want to fall off the wagon. I also want to squat 405 to shore up my fragile ego.

Day 1
Squats
Shoulder accessory work - posterior stuff, no anterior work. No pecs or anterioir delts. Rear Flyes, Laterals, Shrugs even if that thrills you.
maybe some light triceps accessory work

Day 2
Bench
Anterior work. Maybe Flyes, Front Raises

Day 3
Posterior Chain Accessories - RDL, Goodmornings, SLDL variation, pick one
Back Accessories - Pull Overs, Pull downs, Chinups, Rows - pick the variation that hits your weak point, experiment.
Triceps - JM Press, Skull Crushers, Cross Body Extensions..etc.. pick one or two that you liek and pound the tri's into the ground
Biceps - pick one or two things, burn the bi's until they don't move but don't use more than two exercises or much time. This is mostly for beach muscle, but vanity you know.

All done. Rep scheme is up to you. 5 x 5 is good, 3 x 5 is good. Push higher reps on the accessories. Easy system, easy recovery, gets out some frustrations.

This is pretty close to what I’m doing and loving it (and getting stronger)


I like behind the neck press for shoulders best and do a second back on bench day because 1x/wk definitely doesn’t allow enough volume for progress for me.

[Hardartery]

What the fuck do I do if I only want to bench and squat and occasionally deadlift? Need to prioritize other things, but don't want to fall off the wagon. I also want to squat 405 to shore up my fragile ego.

Day 1
Squats
Shoulder accessory work - posterior stuff, no anterior work. No pecs or anterioir delts. Rear Flyes, Laterals, Shrugs even if that thrills you.
maybe some light triceps accessory work

Day 2
Bench
Anterior work. Maybe Flyes, Front Raises

Day 3
Posterior Chain Accessories - RDL, Goodmornings, SLDL variation, pick one
Back Accessories - Pull Overs, Pull downs, Chinups, Rows - pick the variation that hits your weak point, experiment.
Triceps - JM Press, Skull Crushers, Cross Body Extensions..etc.. pick one or two that you liek and pound the tri's into the ground
Biceps - pick one or two things, burn the bi's until they don't move but don't use more than two exercises or much time. This is mostly for beach muscle, but vanity you know.

All done. Rep scheme is up to you. 5 x 5 is good, 3 x 5 is good. Push higher reps on the accessories. Easy system, easy recovery, gets out some frustrations.

This is pretty close to what I’m doing and loving it (and getting stronger)


I like behind the neck press for shoulders best and do a second back on bench day because 1x/wk definitely doesn’t allow enough volume for progress for me.

I love BTN too. It gets ripped on a lot, but I think the negative reputation is unwarranted and frankly invented. I always felt that they were a major bonus to my flexibility and to my press in general.

[perman]

Given all the BBM talk of no bad exercises, and talk recently about how BTN press is safe so long as you're mobile enough, I decided to start with the bar and just do easy sets and gradually add weight. Figured that would probably gradually help give the mobility required for handling some challenging weights (and I don't know how you would even assess how much mobility you actually need, seems like a meme without any actual science behind it).

Anyways, a couple of weeks of btn press at just bar weights and slightly above and I snapped my shoulder up and still struggle with it. The negative reputation certainly lived up the to hype in my very limited experience.

[FredM]

Given all the BBM talk of no bad exercises, and talk recently about how BTN press is safe so long as you're mobile enough, I decided to start with the bar and just do easy sets and gradually add weight. Figured that would probably gradually help give the mobility required for handling some challenging weights (and I don't know how you would even assess how much mobility you actually need, seems like a meme without any actual science behind it).

Anyways, a couple of weeks of btn press at just bar weights and slightly above and I snapped my shoulder up and still struggle with it. The negative reputation certainly lived up the to hype in my very limited experience.

Weird. Sorry if I contributed to that.

BTN presses make my shoulders feel better, if anything. My right shoulder mobility is actually kinda bad too to the point I can't low bar anymore without pain eventually building up.

What does your grip width look like?

[perman]

Nah, haven't read here.

I just tried wide enough that it wasn't uncomfortable, but my grip was inconsistent.

To be fair though, I gave this a shot because 10 years of lifting have helped me acclimate to several exercises I couldn't do, so the BBM "no exercise is bad, so long as you dose them correctly" schtick rang true, and I went for it.

This was a freak occurrence. I've never had an exercise "snap" me up at such low weights like this, but it's funny that it happened with the one exercise I've heard the most warnings against. Makes me think BBM might be ignoring too much of structural model for pain, but hey n=1, anecdotal evidence and all that...