Program recommendations?

All training and programming related queries and banter here

Moderators: mgil, chromoly, Manveer

Post Reply
CaptainAwesome
Registered User
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:27 pm
Age: 39

Re: Program recommendations?

#101

Post by CaptainAwesome » Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:24 am

SnakePlissken wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:11 am Spreading the volume is pretty much Bill Starr's progression too. Always thought of trying it if I ever do an HLM setup again.
Goes something like...
Monday 5x5 ascending sets to a Top set (maybe an RPE 8-9)
Wednesday 5x5 ascending with your top set being the 3rd set from Monday
Friday 4x5 ascending with your top set being the 4th set from Monday, plus a top triple at 5-10lb heavier than your Top set Monday
I have his book. It's not organized the best, but I think it's a very interesting study in not just coming up with "the best program" and being rigidly stuck to it, and instead optimizing programs to what is available to use, and what conditions the programming is confined to. Probably great for anyone who wants to work in training others.

User avatar
CheekiBreekiFitness
Registered User
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:46 am

Re: Program recommendations?

#102

Post by CheekiBreekiFitness » Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:20 am

Genuine question: why are the programming ideas of Bill Starr (and their repackaging by Rip) so popular even today, by comparison to other programming philosophies from the past ?

People like Sully would argue that "well those are old school programs that have worked forever" (sic), but if you research the actual way that "old school" people like Pat Casey, Louie Simmons, Ed Coan, Lamar Gant trained, none of them trained like that. Pat Casey trained with insane volume, Ed Coan always left reps in the tank by training at safe percentages, Lamar Gant trained with both high reps (up to 30 reps) and low reps and so on and so forth. And to be honest their programs looked a lot better than whatever Starr and Rip have been promoting for the last 50 years.

So its is kind of strange that the programs that "survived" the best (pun intended) are objectively not that great in comparison to competing programs from the same era.

CaptainAwesome
Registered User
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:27 pm
Age: 39

Re: Program recommendations?

#103

Post by CaptainAwesome » Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:56 am

CheekiBreekiFitness wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:20 am Genuine question: why are the programming ideas of Bill Starr (and their repackaging by Rip) so popular even today, by comparison to other programming philosophies from the past ?

People like Sully would argue that "well those are old school programs that have worked forever" (sic), but if you research the actual way that "old school" people like Pat Casey, Louie Simmons, Ed Coan, Lamar Gant trained, none of them trained like that. Pat Casey trained with insane volume, Ed Coan always left reps in the tank by training at safe percentages, Lamar Gant trained with both high reps (up to 30 reps) and low reps and so on and so forth. And to be honest their programs looked a lot better than whatever Starr and Rip have been promoting for the last 50 years.

So its is kind of strange that the programs that "survived" the best (pun intended) are objectively not that great in comparison to competing programs from the same era.
I wouldn't say Rippetoe repackaged Starr, except of course for the HLM method in Practical Programming, but I think this is adequately acknowledged. A lot of Starr's programming stuff he doesn't really seem to agree with, especially not currently. Have you read "The Strongest Shall Survive"? I have a copy. It's not a program designed to jump start a promising lifting career. It's designed to make the most efficient use of the limited resources and time a high school or college football team may have access to. The target audience is a football coach, back in a time when ideas like "lifting weights makes you slow" were still held by many such people. The basic program is essentially designed as a novice program, and he provides a number of options to keep it going beyond that point. A lot of the information in it is obviously dated, just looking at the photos of dudes in the book you know the thing is from another time. I'll admit I haven't read any other material from Starr on programming specifics, don't know if he really even has anything else out there other than maybe some articles.

User avatar
CheekiBreekiFitness
Registered User
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:46 am

Re: Program recommendations?

#104

Post by CheekiBreekiFitness » Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:06 am

CaptainAwesome wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:56 am
CheekiBreekiFitness wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:20 am Genuine question: why are the programming ideas of Bill Starr (and their repackaging by Rip) so popular even today, by comparison to other programming philosophies from the past ?

People like Sully would argue that "well those are old school programs that have worked forever" (sic), but if you research the actual way that "old school" people like Pat Casey, Louie Simmons, Ed Coan, Lamar Gant trained, none of them trained like that. Pat Casey trained with insane volume, Ed Coan always left reps in the tank by training at safe percentages, Lamar Gant trained with both high reps (up to 30 reps) and low reps and so on and so forth. And to be honest their programs looked a lot better than whatever Starr and Rip have been promoting for the last 50 years.

So its is kind of strange that the programs that "survived" the best (pun intended) are objectively not that great in comparison to competing programs from the same era.
I wouldn't say Rippetoe repackaged Starr, except of course for the HLM method in Practical Programming, but I think this is adequately acknowledged. A lot of Starr's programming stuff he doesn't really seem to agree with, especially not currently. Have you read "The Strongest Shall Survive"? I have a copy. It's not a program designed to jump start a promising lifting career. It's designed to make the most efficient use of the limited resources and time a high school or college football team may have access to. The target audience is a football coach, back in a time when ideas like "lifting weights makes you slow" were still held by many such people. The basic program is essentially designed as a novice program, and he provides a number of options to keep it going beyond that point. A lot of the information in it is obviously dated, just looking at the photos of dudes in the book you know the thing is from another time. I'll admit I haven't read any other material from Starr on programming specifics, don't know if he really even has anything else out there other than maybe some articles.
Yeah the point being that Rip is not even good at repackaging. He thought that somehow it was a good idea to use programs designed for football players (who are already athletic, have a high level of conditioning, probably have a decent level of muscle mass etc) and sell that to out of shape people with no athleticism, no conditioning, whom probably spent the first 30 years of their life in front of a computer.

gtl
Registered User
Posts: 1699
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:04 am
Location: Naptown
Age: 38

Re: Program recommendations?

#105

Post by gtl » Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:11 am

Hanley wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:32 am
gtl wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:03 am
Hanley wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:01 am
gtl wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:56 am
Hanley wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:03 pm
CaptainAwesome wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:50 pm Is that Sheiko thing a log app?
No. It's a program builder app. It's excellent. You get 4 free "sheiko AI" sessions. It'll scale intensity and volume up-front based on questionnaire input and then adjust real-time based on qualitative feedback after each set, etc. Try it. It's quite good. Better than spreadsheets for sure.
I'm intrigued. Do you know how long the workouts are?
You decide. You can do anything from a one lift a day type format to full SBD (or variations) + accessories. Super flexible.
I think I'm going to give this a run. My e1rms are in the shitter right now and I have made no progress in the last 6 months.
I might use it myself. I downloaded it and it's better than I remember.
Yeah, that app would kill me. I ended up paying the $20 for a month so I could generate workouts to see how they are structured based on the different inputs. The first workout it generated had 25 working sets on a 5 day a week routine. I can't do that.

I did play with it a little bit and found some ideas:

[main lifts (sq bp) - bp focus]
bp - 11 sets
fr sq - 5 sets

[dl + accessories]
sumo deficit deadlift - 7 sets
leg press - 5 sets
deadlift (from center block) - 4 sets
split squat - 5 sets

[off]

[main lifts (sq bp) - sq focus]
bp - 11 sets
squat to box - 11 sets

[additional exercises only]
pushups - 5 sets
leg press - 5 sets
split squat - 5 sets
deadlift (from center block) - 4 sets
speed bench press - 5 sets

[main lifts (dl bp) - bp focus]
dl - 6 sets
bp 11 sets

off

Unfortunately, deadlift + accessories seems to only be lower accessories. Idk why it keeps adding in these deadlift from center blocks. It also doesn't seem like the additional exercises only has the order of exercises.. I would think speed bench, then pushups. There's also seemingly no chins/pulldowns/rows. And Idk how I feel about 3 days a week just doing 2 lifts.

CaptainAwesome
Registered User
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:27 pm
Age: 39

Re: Program recommendations?

#106

Post by CaptainAwesome » Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:31 am

CheekiBreekiFitness wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:06 am Yeah the point being that Rip is not even good at repackaging. He thought that somehow it was a good idea to use programs designed for football players (who are already athletic, have a high level of conditioning, probably have a decent level of muscle mass etc) and sell that to out of shape people with no athleticism, no conditioning, whom probably spent the first 30 years of their life in front of a computer.
In PPST it's largely sold as being for people with some kind of fairly intense sport going on, hobby or otherwise. It also has that weird thing about "adding days" that seemed geared toward olympic lifting. I've never had interest in trying to suss out whatever the hell is going on there. I was never interested in olympic lifting, and honestly doing a bunch of power snatches and power cleans I've in fact developed a dislike for it entirely. They say never say never, but I don't see them ever being a part of my training again. There do seem to be people out there who have gotten some mileage out of HLM though. It certainly doesn't have the reputation the Texas Method has.

User avatar
Hanley
Strength Nerd
Posts: 8747
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:35 pm
Age: 46

Re: Program recommendations?

#107

Post by Hanley » Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:42 pm

gtl wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:11 am
Hanley wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:32 am
gtl wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:03 am
Hanley wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:01 am
gtl wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:56 am
Hanley wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:03 pm
CaptainAwesome wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:50 pm Is that Sheiko thing a log app?
No. It's a program builder app. It's excellent. You get 4 free "sheiko AI" sessions. It'll scale intensity and volume up-front based on questionnaire input and then adjust real-time based on qualitative feedback after each set, etc. Try it. It's quite good. Better than spreadsheets for sure.
I'm intrigued. Do you know how long the workouts are?
You decide. You can do anything from a one lift a day type format to full SBD (or variations) + accessories. Super flexible.
I think I'm going to give this a run. My e1rms are in the shitter right now and I have made no progress in the last 6 months.
I might use it myself. I downloaded it and it's better than I remember.
Yeah, that app would kill me. I ended up paying the $20 for a month so I could generate workouts to see how they are structured based on the different inputs. The first workout it generated had 25 working sets on a 5 day a week routine. I can't do that.

I did play with it a little bit and found some ideas:

[main lifts (sq bp) - bp focus]
bp - 11 sets
fr sq - 5 sets

[dl + accessories]
sumo deficit deadlift - 7 sets
leg press - 5 sets
deadlift (from center block) - 4 sets
split squat - 5 sets

[off]

[main lifts (sq bp) - sq focus]
bp - 11 sets
squat to box - 11 sets

[additional exercises only]
pushups - 5 sets
leg press - 5 sets
split squat - 5 sets
deadlift (from center block) - 4 sets
speed bench press - 5 sets

[main lifts (dl bp) - bp focus]
dl - 6 sets
bp 11 sets

off

Unfortunately, deadlift + accessories seems to only be lower accessories. Idk why it keeps adding in these deadlift from center blocks. It also doesn't seem like the additional exercises only has the order of exercises.. I would think speed bench, then pushups. There's also seemingly no chins/pulldowns/rows. And Idk how I feel about 3 days a week just doing 2 lifts.
Is this the "Sheiko AI" function?

I dunno. I messed around a bit and like the sessions.

gtl
Registered User
Posts: 1699
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:04 am
Location: Naptown
Age: 38

Re: Program recommendations?

#108

Post by gtl » Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:45 am

Hanley wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:42 pm
gtl wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:11 am
Hanley wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:32 am
gtl wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:03 am
Hanley wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:01 am
gtl wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:56 am
Hanley wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:03 pm
CaptainAwesome wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:50 pm Is that Sheiko thing a log app?
No. It's a program builder app. It's excellent. You get 4 free "sheiko AI" sessions. It'll scale intensity and volume up-front based on questionnaire input and then adjust real-time based on qualitative feedback after each set, etc. Try it. It's quite good. Better than spreadsheets for sure.
I'm intrigued. Do you know how long the workouts are?
You decide. You can do anything from a one lift a day type format to full SBD (or variations) + accessories. Super flexible.
I think I'm going to give this a run. My e1rms are in the shitter right now and I have made no progress in the last 6 months.
I might use it myself. I downloaded it and it's better than I remember.
Yeah, that app would kill me. I ended up paying the $20 for a month so I could generate workouts to see how they are structured based on the different inputs. The first workout it generated had 25 working sets on a 5 day a week routine. I can't do that.

I did play with it a little bit and found some ideas:

[main lifts (sq bp) - bp focus]
bp - 11 sets
fr sq - 5 sets

[dl + accessories]
sumo deficit deadlift - 7 sets
leg press - 5 sets
deadlift (from center block) - 4 sets
split squat - 5 sets

[off]

[main lifts (sq bp) - sq focus]
bp - 11 sets
squat to box - 11 sets

[additional exercises only]
pushups - 5 sets
leg press - 5 sets
split squat - 5 sets
deadlift (from center block) - 4 sets
speed bench press - 5 sets

[main lifts (dl bp) - bp focus]
dl - 6 sets
bp 11 sets

off

Unfortunately, deadlift + accessories seems to only be lower accessories. Idk why it keeps adding in these deadlift from center blocks. It also doesn't seem like the additional exercises only has the order of exercises.. I would think speed bench, then pushups. There's also seemingly no chins/pulldowns/rows. And Idk how I feel about 3 days a week just doing 2 lifts.
Is this the "Sheiko AI" function?

I dunno. I messed around a bit and like the sessions.
Yeah, Sheiko AI - set up as Prep I. The "focus" part was just me toggling under "Training Emphasis" for each workout.

cole
Registered User
Posts: 2824
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:03 pm
Location: Ft Collins, Colorado
Age: 40

Re: Program recommendations?

#109

Post by cole » Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:45 am

CaptainAwesome wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:31 am
CheekiBreekiFitness wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:06 am Yeah the point being that Rip is not even good at repackaging. He thought that somehow it was a good idea to use programs designed for football players (who are already athletic, have a high level of conditioning, probably have a decent level of muscle mass etc) and sell that to out of shape people with no athleticism, no conditioning, whom probably spent the first 30 years of their life in front of a computer.
In PPST it's largely sold as being for people with some kind of fairly intense sport going on, hobby or otherwise. It also has that weird thing about "adding days" that seemed geared toward olympic lifting. I've never had interest in trying to suss out whatever the hell is going on there. I was never interested in olympic lifting, and honestly doing a bunch of power snatches and power cleans I've in fact developed a dislike for it entirely. They say never say never, but I don't see them ever being a part of my training again. There do seem to be people out there who have gotten some mileage out of HLM though. It certainly doesn't have the reputation the Texas Method has.
TM and 4 day TM worked well for me for about 2 months both times i ran it, then i had trouble progressing since i really couldnt add any more volume to an already packed volume day.

I could probably run an HLM year round, and have had success doing SS HLM in the past. It is a viable programming option, but i do feel like at a certain point, you really need to incorporate RPE and autoregulation, and if you are doing HLM as per SS, it is still a very linear approach. Works well if you start the program VERY light, or if you are weak to begin with an have a lot of room to improve. Once you already have a good base, SS programming is really only for maintenece or to rebuild/rehab

AlanMackey
Registered User
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:17 am

Re: Program recommendations?

#110

Post by AlanMackey » Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:30 pm

CheekiBreekiFitness wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:20 am Genuine question: why are the programming ideas of Bill Starr (and their repackaging by Rip) so popular even today, by comparison to other programming philosophies from the past ?

People like Sully would argue that "well those are old school programs that have worked forever" (sic), but if you research the actual way that "old school" people like Pat Casey, Louie Simmons, Ed Coan, Lamar Gant trained, none of them trained like that. Pat Casey trained with insane volume, Ed Coan always left reps in the tank by training at safe percentages, Lamar Gant trained with both high reps (up to 30 reps) and low reps and so on and so forth. And to be honest their programs looked a lot better than whatever Starr and Rip have been promoting for the last 50 years.

So its is kind of strange that the programs that "survived" the best (pun intended) are objectively not that great in comparison to competing programs from the same era.
And, if I recall correctly, Bill Starr’s The Strongest Shall Survive depicts a fast paced program, with little or no rest between sets and exercises, whereas Rip suggests that eight minutes is not a long rest.

CaptainAwesome
Registered User
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:27 pm
Age: 39

Re: Program recommendations?

#111

Post by CaptainAwesome » Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:48 pm

AlanMackey wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:30 pm And, if I recall correctly, Bill Starr’s The Strongest Shall Survive depicts a fast paced program, with little or no rest between sets and exercises, whereas Rip suggests that eight minutes is not a long rest.
Pretty much, though he didn't give specific rest time recommendations that I could see. He does include the option of doing all three of his main lifts as a circuit to save time. He also recounts a time he and Tommy Suggs basically did some monster squat workout that was 10 minutes long to see if they could use squats for cardio.

User avatar
DCR
Registered User
Posts: 3408
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:06 am
Location: Louisiana / New York
Age: 45

Re: Program recommendations?

#112

Post by DCR » Fri Oct 07, 2022 3:03 pm

AlanMackey wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:30 pm And, if I recall correctly, Bill Starr’s The Strongest Shall Survive depicts a fast paced program, with little or no rest between sets and exercises, whereas Rip suggests that eight fifteen minutes is not a long rest.
ftfy

oldguy
Registered User
Posts: 657
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:13 am
Age: 63

Re: Program recommendations?

#113

Post by oldguy » Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:26 pm

FredM wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:02 pm
MarkKO wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:52 am
The only caveat is no matter what you do, you have to be pretty meticulous about recording what you do and have your brain switched on the whole time. You've got to be consciously assessing as you go, or you won't really learn much at all.
Like most things in life, this is why it ultimately falls on you. The vast majority of "coaches" aren't going to do that for you either -- unless you're a competitive athlete and their reputation is tied to your progress/success. As a result, most "coaching" is basically equivalent to running a few templates and making minor adjustments based off your response in the first few months. You might as well find some free templates yourself and do the same thing.

It only took me 4 years to learn this. Which makes sense.I think I'm mostly obsessed with lifting because it's the one thing in life I've found that I truly and seriously suck at.

I was not expecting that.

OverheadDeadlifts
Registered User
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:13 pm

Re: Program recommendations?

#114

Post by OverheadDeadlifts » Thu Oct 13, 2022 3:51 am

@gtl @Hanley Had the Sheiko gold app sitting on my phone for a while and you guys mentioning it finally pushed me to actually start it. Loved Sheiko when I did it a few years ago so I’ve got high expectations.

@gtl Did you do the 30 day observation period where you log your usual training using freestyle? Sounds like you went straight to the AI programming which is probably why it spat out some inappropriate sessions to begin with. I’ll admit I was kinda confused at first, the app doesn’t do a great job explaining how you’re supposed to start.

gtl
Registered User
Posts: 1699
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:04 am
Location: Naptown
Age: 38

Re: Program recommendations?

#115

Post by gtl » Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:18 am

OverheadDeadlifts wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 3:51 am @gtl @Hanley Had the Sheiko gold app sitting on my phone for a while and you guys mentioning it finally pushed me to actually start it. Loved Sheiko when I did it a few years ago so I’ve got high expectations.

@gtl Did you do the 30 day observation period where you log your usual training using freestyle? Sounds like you went straight to the AI programming which is probably why it spat out some inappropriate sessions to begin with. I’ll admit I was kinda confused at first, the app doesn’t do a great job explaining how you’re supposed to start.
I did not, and did not understand that part, either. I was needing new programming because what I was doing wasn't working :/ In any event, I'm trying to rinse and repeat an old program of mine with a few changes to see what I can get from it.

User avatar
perman
Registered User
Posts: 1183
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:48 pm
Location: Near Oslo, Norway
Age: 39

Re: Program recommendations?

#116

Post by perman » Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:40 pm

OverheadDeadlifts wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 3:51 am @gtl @Hanley Had the Sheiko gold app sitting on my phone for a while and you guys mentioning it finally pushed me to actually start it. Loved Sheiko when I did it a few years ago so I’ve got high expectations.

@gtl Did you do the 30 day observation period where you log your usual training using freestyle? Sounds like you went straight to the AI programming which is probably why it spat out some inappropriate sessions to begin with. I’ll admit I was kinda confused at first, the app doesn’t do a great job explaining how you’re supposed to start.
I'm doing something in between now. I'm editing the AI sessions it gives me. Typically removing some sets of the latter exercises. I have noticed it will give an exercise back with the same sets and weights as last time, but it has also given me something completely different on the same exercise too.
For instance, I made a deficit SLDL exercise which I had from a bbm program where I did 6s up to rpe 8. It gave it back to me with no weight suggestions and just said 4r*5s at medium weights.

My impression is both that the longer you use it, the more customized it will be, and also that it doesn't customize THAT much. I have told it #tooLong and #tooMuchVolume at the end of lot of my sessions, and it still gives me like 30-35 work sets on 5 exercises every session on a full body prep 1 program.
Ideally, I would like the program to figure out I don't want that much accessory volume every session when I get a full workout.

James
Registered User
Posts: 1275
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:26 am

Re: Program recommendations?

#117

Post by James » Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:44 am

Didn't Sheiko come out last year and say he was no longer affiliated with the app because he didn't think it did a good enough job adjusting for most people.

OverheadDeadlifts
Registered User
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:13 pm

Re: Program recommendations?

#118

Post by OverheadDeadlifts » Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:08 pm

perman wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:40 pm I'm doing something in between now. I'm editing the AI sessions it gives me. Typically removing some sets of the latter exercises. I have noticed it will give an exercise back with the same sets and weights as last time, but it has also given me something completely different on the same exercise too.
For instance, I made a deficit SLDL exercise which I had from a bbm program where I did 6s up to rpe 8. It gave it back to me with no weight suggestions and just said 4r*5s at medium weights.

My impression is both that the longer you use it, the more customized it will be, and also that it doesn't customize THAT much. I have told it #tooLong and #tooMuchVolume at the end of lot of my sessions, and it still gives me like 30-35 work sets on 5 exercises every session on a full body prep 1 program.
Ideally, I would like the program to figure out I don't want that much accessory volume every session when I get a full workout.
How long have you been using it? From what I understand if you use it for less than 30 days, even if you select AI workout, the workouts will be pulled straight from one of the stock numbered programs until you finish a cycle. Don’t quote me on that though.
James wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:44 am Didn't Sheiko come out last year and say he was no longer affiliated with the app because he didn't think it did a good enough job adjusting for most people.
I saw he wasn’t affiliated anymore but can’t find an actual reason why.

User avatar
perman
Registered User
Posts: 1183
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:48 pm
Location: Near Oslo, Norway
Age: 39

Re: Program recommendations?

#119

Post by perman » Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:58 pm

OverheadDeadlifts wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:08 pm How long have you been using it? From what I understand if you use it for less than 30 days, even if you select AI workout, the workouts will be pulled straight from one of the stock numbered programs until you finish a cycle. Don’t quote me on that though.
Less than 30 days yeah, but getting there. I'm just guessing though.

I like the AI, but wish it was a whole lot better. I associate Sheiko with DUP, but whatever DUP-aspect is in the app seems hardly customizable, and the app seems more about exercise selection.

AI coaching does seem like the future though. An actual coach could use progression schemes and programming style that actually matched the preferences of a trainee while making an overall good program.

I for instance like rpe on some things, not others, prefer simple linear progressions on new assistance work, like certain rep ranges on particular exercises (hate how spreadsheets have a squat assistance slot with reps of 7s no matter if you're doing leg presses, front squats, pause squats or slow eccentric squats) like supersetting certain exercises, like failure on some isolations and not others for iffy reasons. All of that shit is too hard to match to cookie cutter spreadsheets and apps, and either require self coaching or actual coaching to fully match preferences. An AI who could accommodate all or most of my weight lifting idiosyncracies while letting me know when I'm being an idiot and making better suggestions is the dream.

I'm sure Hanley, Savs, mgil and whatever the dude here was called who used anal vibration before Niemann made it popular, can squeeze out an Exodus AI in a jiffy.

FredM
Registered User
Posts: 728
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:17 am
Age: 36

Re: Program recommendations?

#120

Post by FredM » Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:15 pm

oldguy wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:26 pm
I was not expecting that.
I golfed pretty occasionally since I was 7 or so. Generally my handicap is about 20. If I decide I want to not suck at golf, I can (and have) golf every weekend in a summer and end up with <10 handicap. I'm pretty confident if I did this for four years I'd be a scratch golfer.

I was always decent at math. When I realized there were people a lot better than me at it in HS I studied every summer to place out of math classes until I literally ran out (Calc 3) before senior year. I'm pretty confident if I did that for 4+ more years I could have had a PhD in Math from a good school.

When I started strength training 4 years ago I ended my LP with a 3pl8 squat, 2pl8 bench, and 4pl8 pull. Again. Would classify myself as decent. Like absolutely everything I try in life I'm exceedingly average at a baseline. So I decided I wanted to be good at lifting and here I am 4 years later with... checking ... a 3pl8 squat, 2pl8 bench and <4pl8 pull. And yes. I'm more than 30 lbs lighter. My squat is 4 inches deeper. I don't actually pull regularly. But it's hard to ignore the data.

So by "suck at" I guess I really mean "suck at getting better at," which, to me, is the same thing.

Post Reply