Waist Size

[Philbert]

The guy Cutler was standing with looks like a Men's Physique competitor. They go for the uber thin waist look, which means staying away from loading the core or it will get too thick. If you squat and deadlift heavy weights, you will have a thicker waist, even if you are showing abs. I'm getting pretty close to abs at 34", which isn't that small. Probably still have to lose another 1.5" to get bottom abs. Tops are there. And I'm pretty short at 5'8" / 173 cm. I'm kind of the opinion that these measurements are BS. If you can grab a bunch of fat on your stomach, then you have your answer. If you can only pinch a bit, then you are pretty lean.

If you have thick subcutaneous fat on your abdominal wall you can afford to lose weight. If you do not have such thick fat there it does not follow that you are therefore lean. You may simply be an individual with thin subcutaneous fat. I have seen men with relatively thin subcutaneous fat (visible upper abs) and a 40+ inch waist with significant visceral adiposity and fatty liver.

[JohnHelton]

The guy Cutler was standing with looks like a Men's Physique competitor. They go for the uber thin waist look, which means staying away from loading the core or it will get too thick. If you squat and deadlift heavy weights, you will have a thicker waist, even if you are showing abs. I'm getting pretty close to abs at 34", which isn't that small. Probably still have to lose another 1.5" to get bottom abs. Tops are there. And I'm pretty short at 5'8" / 173 cm. I'm kind of the opinion that these measurements are BS. If you can grab a bunch of fat on your stomach, then you have your answer. If you can only pinch a bit, then you are pretty lean.

If you have thick subcutaneous fat on your abdominal wall you can afford to lose weight. If you do not have such thick fat there it does not follow that you are therefore lean. You may simply be an individual with thin subcutaneous fat. I have seen men with relatively thin subcutaneous fat (visible upper abs) and a 40+ inch waist with significant visceral adiposity and fatty liver.

Very interesting. I'm not used to seeing such people, so I had to look up pictures. What I saw reminded me of my father-in-law. Lean everywhere, but with a hard potbelly. How common is this? Regardless, my rule of thumb above doesn't work for such people. How about this rule - Your shirt should not touch your stomach while you stand. It should just hang from your chest like drapery. Seems like when combined with my other statement (with an "and" clause) then one has a relatively easy test without taking measurements.

[JohnHelton]

I think waist sizes and lifters are a lot like BMI and lifters - lots of lifters think these measurements are irrelevant because they're just too jacked. At my worst Texas Method/SS days, I also ignored how much fat I put on, and because I could still see my upper abs with a 38"+ waist, I thought all those recommendations were non-sense. I was a lifter, I was eating a lot, I could sort of see my abs still, who cares. Well, my cholesterol was also at a PR, and my blood pressure was always a bit elevated at the doctor's office, which I thought was just White Coat Syndrome. Interestingly enough, when I stopped the TM/SS non-sense, lost ~20lbs and about 6 inches off my waist, my LDL dropped by 60 points, and my blood pressure was perfectly normal even at the doctor's office. In fact, my doctor's literal words were "your cholesterol is amazing". All I did was stop pretending body fat doesn't apply as much to me because something-something I lift weights for fun.

Truth is, a lot of lifters (applies much more so to the strength/powerlifting crowd) are a bit too fat, and instead of getting less fat they try to justify why they might be an outlier. Outliers exist but I would bet 95% of people who think they are one, are just looking for an excuse to think they do not need to lose weight.

I agree. We talk about body dysmorphia around here, and it works in both directions. I generally think that waist size is a good upper bounds, red flag. I bulked to my fattest self at the beginning of January 2020, with a waist size of about 38.5". I weighed about 215-220 lbs. I have since lost about 30 lbs. My waist size was a key signal to me that I needed to do some work. The threat of cardiovascular disease was the biggest motivator. It is easy to be comfortable at a larger size in the general public, but even more so in the lifting world. However, such comfort doesn't equate to lower CVD risk.

The following is a link to my transformation. https://exodus-strength.com/forum/viewt ... 42#p269142

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

I think waist sizes and lifters are a lot like BMI and lifters - lots of lifters think these measurements are irrelevant because they're just too jacked. At my worst Texas Method/SS days, I also ignored how much fat I put on, and because I could still see my upper abs with a 38"+ waist, I thought all those recommendations were non-sense. I was a lifter, I was eating a lot, I could sort of see my abs still, who cares. Well, my cholesterol was also at a PR, and my blood pressure was always a bit elevated at the doctor's office, which I thought was just White Coat Syndrome. Interestingly enough, when I stopped the TM/SS non-sense, lost ~20lbs and about 6 inches off my waist, my LDL dropped by 60 points, and my blood pressure was perfectly normal even at the doctor's office. In fact, my doctor's literal words were "your cholesterol is amazing". All I did was stop pretending body fat doesn't apply as much to me because something-something I lift weights for fun.

Truth is, a lot of lifters (applies much more so to the strength/powerlifting crowd) are a bit too fat, and instead of getting less fat they try to justify why they might be an outlier. Outliers exist but I would bet 95% of people who think they are one, are just looking for an excuse to think they do not need to lose weight.

I agree with this. I think that some people who train to get stronger use it as an excuse to disregard body composition. I mean unless you are getting paid to do this stuff, it does not make sense to be fat just for a hobby (and reduce your life expectancy), because in the end that's all it is. Some people go as far as saying that they have a "power belly" as if it is something that cannot be dissociated from the hobby of lifting weights. A "power belly" does not make you more powerful, it's just a symptom of not paying attention to nutrition, while using your hobby of lifting weights 3 times a week as a convenient excuse.

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

I think waist sizes and lifters are a lot like BMI and lifters - lots of lifters think these measurements are irrelevant because they're just too jacked. At my worst Texas Method/SS days, I also ignored how much fat I put on, and because I could still see my upper abs with a 38"+ waist, I thought all those recommendations were non-sense. I was a lifter, I was eating a lot, I could sort of see my abs still, who cares. Well, my cholesterol was also at a PR, and my blood pressure was always a bit elevated at the doctor's office, which I thought was just White Coat Syndrome. Interestingly enough, when I stopped the TM/SS non-sense, lost ~20lbs and about 6 inches off my waist, my LDL dropped by 60 points, and my blood pressure was perfectly normal even at the doctor's office. In fact, my doctor's literal words were "your cholesterol is amazing". All I did was stop pretending body fat doesn't apply as much to me because something-something I lift weights for fun.

Truth is, a lot of lifters (applies much more so to the strength/powerlifting crowd) are a bit too fat, and instead of getting less fat they try to justify why they might be an outlier. Outliers exist but I would bet 95% of people who think they are one, are just looking for an excuse to think they do not need to lose weight.

I agree. We talk about body dysmorphia around here, and it works in both directions. I generally think that waist size is a good upper bounds, red flag. I bulked to my fattest self at the beginning of January 2020, with a waist size of about 38.5". I weighed about 215-220 lbs. I have since lost about 30 lbs. My waist size was a key signal to me that I needed to do some work. The threat of cardiovascular disease was the biggest motivator. It is easy to be comfortable at a larger size in the general public, but even more so in the lifting world. However, such comfort doesn't equate to lower CVD risk.

The following is a link to my transformation. https://exodus-strength.com/forum/viewt ... 42#p269142

Very impressive transformation.

For my future bulks/cut I'm thinking of disregarding weight and/or subjective body fat assessment by looking in the mirror altogether and just focusing on a waist size range. Say a range between 33 and 35 inches. I think it actually makes a lot more sense.

[MarkKO]

I think waist sizes and lifters are a lot like BMI and lifters - lots of lifters think these measurements are irrelevant because they're just too jacked. At my worst Texas Method/SS days, I also ignored how much fat I put on, and because I could still see my upper abs with a 38"+ waist, I thought all those recommendations were non-sense. I was a lifter, I was eating a lot, I could sort of see my abs still, who cares. Well, my cholesterol was also at a PR, and my blood pressure was always a bit elevated at the doctor's office, which I thought was just White Coat Syndrome. Interestingly enough, when I stopped the TM/SS non-sense, lost ~20lbs and about 6 inches off my waist, my LDL dropped by 60 points, and my blood pressure was perfectly normal even at the doctor's office. In fact, my doctor's literal words were "your cholesterol is amazing". All I did was stop pretending body fat doesn't apply as much to me because something-something I lift weights for fun.

Truth is, a lot of lifters (applies much more so to the strength/powerlifting crowd) are a bit too fat, and instead of getting less fat they try to justify why they might be an outlier. Outliers exist but I would bet 95% of people who think they are one, are just looking for an excuse to think they do not need to lose weight.

I agree with this. I think that some people who train to get stronger use it as an excuse to disregard body composition. I mean unless you are getting paid to do this stuff, it does not make sense to be fat just for a hobby (and reduce your life expectancy), because in the end that's all it is. Some people go as far as saying that they have a "power belly" as if it is something that cannot be dissociated from the hobby of lifting weights. A "power belly" does not make you more powerful, it's just a symptom of not paying attention to nutrition, while using your hobby of lifting weights 3 times a week as a convenient excuse.

You're right.

There's also an element of being so focused on adding weight to the bar that you end up ignoring the disparity between your own weight, what you can lift and what OTHERS who weigh the same can lift except those people aren't fat.

I say this as someone who was in the 275 class (something like 266 or 267 lbs at my heaviest), but whose actual lifts weren't even that good for someone in the 220s let alone the 275s. Luckily I saw sense, but plenty of guys don't.

[JohnHelton]

I think waist sizes and lifters are a lot like BMI and lifters - lots of lifters think these measurements are irrelevant because they're just too jacked. At my worst Texas Method/SS days, I also ignored how much fat I put on, and because I could still see my upper abs with a 38"+ waist, I thought all those recommendations were non-sense. I was a lifter, I was eating a lot, I could sort of see my abs still, who cares. Well, my cholesterol was also at a PR, and my blood pressure was always a bit elevated at the doctor's office, which I thought was just White Coat Syndrome. Interestingly enough, when I stopped the TM/SS non-sense, lost ~20lbs and about 6 inches off my waist, my LDL dropped by 60 points, and my blood pressure was perfectly normal even at the doctor's office. In fact, my doctor's literal words were "your cholesterol is amazing". All I did was stop pretending body fat doesn't apply as much to me because something-something I lift weights for fun.

Truth is, a lot of lifters (applies much more so to the strength/powerlifting crowd) are a bit too fat, and instead of getting less fat they try to justify why they might be an outlier. Outliers exist but I would bet 95% of people who think they are one, are just looking for an excuse to think they do not need to lose weight.

I agree. We talk about body dysmorphia around here, and it works in both directions. I generally think that waist size is a good upper bounds, red flag. I bulked to my fattest self at the beginning of January 2020, with a waist size of about 38.5". I weighed about 215-220 lbs. I have since lost about 30 lbs. My waist size was a key signal to me that I needed to do some work. The threat of cardiovascular disease was the biggest motivator. It is easy to be comfortable at a larger size in the general public, but even more so in the lifting world. However, such comfort doesn't equate to lower CVD risk.

The following is a link to my transformation. https://exodus-strength.com/forum/viewt ... 42#p269142

Very impressive transformation.

For my future bulks/cut I'm thinking of disregarding weight and/or subjective body fat assessment by looking in the mirror altogether and just focusing on a waist size range. Say a range between 33 and 35 inches. I think it actually makes a lot more sense.

Thank you. And I agree the strategy makes sense.

[Culican]

The following is a link to my transformation. https://exodus-strength.com/forum/viewt ... 42#p269142

Very impressive!

Some people go as far as saying that they have a "power belly" as if it is something that cannot be dissociated from the hobby of lifting weights. A "power belly" does not make you more powerful, it's just a symptom of not paying attention to nutrition, while using your hobby of lifting weights 3 times a week as a convenient excuse.

... And we know where to find that type of assertion: Power Bellies

[JohnHelton]

... And we know where to find that type of assertion: Power Bellies

So crazy. "Being a proud member of the Power Belly Committee, I define it as a stomach that sticks out further than your chest, with minimal definition." Pretty much the opposite of my prescription for your chest to stick out further than your stomach. "Throw health concerns to the wind and just go for it!" And what has the same done for Carl? Not that much. https://www.openpowerlifting.org/u/carlraghavan Maybe he is stronger now. IDK.

[quikky]

... And we know where to find that type of assertion: Power Bellies

So crazy. "Being a proud member of the Power Belly Committee, I define it as a stomach that sticks out further than your chest, with minimal definition." Pretty much the opposite of my prescription for your chest to stick out further than your stomach. "Throw health concerns to the wind and just go for it!" And what has the same done for Carl? Not that much. https://www.openpowerlifting.org/u/carlraghavan Maybe he is stronger now. IDK.

Props for being kind and not posting pictures of what Carl looks like now.

[Hardartery]

I think waist sizes and lifters are a lot like BMI and lifters - lots of lifters think these measurements are irrelevant because they're just too jacked. At my worst Texas Method/SS days, I also ignored how much fat I put on, and because I could still see my upper abs with a 38"+ waist, I thought all those recommendations were non-sense. I was a lifter, I was eating a lot, I could sort of see my abs still, who cares. Well, my cholesterol was also at a PR, and my blood pressure was always a bit elevated at the doctor's office, which I thought was just White Coat Syndrome. Interestingly enough, when I stopped the TM/SS non-sense, lost ~20lbs and about 6 inches off my waist, my LDL dropped by 60 points, and my blood pressure was perfectly normal even at the doctor's office. In fact, my doctor's literal words were "your cholesterol is amazing". All I did was stop pretending body fat doesn't apply as much to me because something-something I lift weights for fun.

Truth is, a lot of lifters (applies much more so to the strength/powerlifting crowd) are a bit too fat, and instead of getting less fat they try to justify why they might be an outlier. Outliers exist but I would bet 95% of people who think they are one, are just looking for an excuse to think they do not need to lose weight.

I feel that this is very true. We are easily persuaded to ignore what we don't want to believe. I was thinking tha the difference between Cutler and the other guy mostly came down to the difference in actually working the core muscles, as pointed out by @MarkKO or @JohnHelton somewhere in the thread. I know in my case that I am currently too fat with no justification for staying that way. I know also that my waist size is slow to change and I can have an extremely hard belly without abs and at a large diameter. Not a great thing healthwise because it likely means I store too much fat under the muscle. The first big cut I did to make weight for U105kg got me down to 36" waist pants (depending on brand) and I got referred to as "Slim" by another Strongman. Me with a legit 36" waist would be a little crazy looking, so I don't put much stock in the idea of an absolute waist measurement for men. But my blood pressure and being above 265 lbs are generally at odds.

[MarkKO]

I think waist sizes and lifters are a lot like BMI and lifters - lots of lifters think these measurements are irrelevant because they're just too jacked. At my worst Texas Method/SS days, I also ignored how much fat I put on, and because I could still see my upper abs with a 38"+ waist, I thought all those recommendations were non-sense. I was a lifter, I was eating a lot, I could sort of see my abs still, who cares. Well, my cholesterol was also at a PR, and my blood pressure was always a bit elevated at the doctor's office, which I thought was just White Coat Syndrome. Interestingly enough, when I stopped the TM/SS non-sense, lost ~20lbs and about 6 inches off my waist, my LDL dropped by 60 points, and my blood pressure was perfectly normal even at the doctor's office. In fact, my doctor's literal words were "your cholesterol is amazing". All I did was stop pretending body fat doesn't apply as much to me because something-something I lift weights for fun.

Truth is, a lot of lifters (applies much more so to the strength/powerlifting crowd) are a bit too fat, and instead of getting less fat they try to justify why they might be an outlier. Outliers exist but I would bet 95% of people who think they are one, are just looking for an excuse to think they do not need to lose weight.

I feel that this is very true. We are easily persuaded to ignore what we don't want to believe. I was thinking tha the difference between Cutler and the other guy mostly came down to the difference in actually working the core muscles, as pointed out by @MarkKO or @JohnHelton somewhere in the thread. I know in my case that I am currently too fat with no justification for staying that way. I know also that my waist size is slow to change and I can have an extremely hard belly without abs and at a large diameter. Not a great thing healthwise because it likely means I store too much fat under the muscle. The first big cut I did to make weight for U105kg got me down to 36" waist pants (depending on brand) and I got referred to as "Slim" by another Strongman. Me with a legit 36" waist would be a little crazy looking, so I don't put much stock in the idea of an absolute waist measurement for men. But my blood pressure and being above 265 lbs are generally at odds.

The blood pressure thing is a whole other story for me. When I was walking around in the high 250s/low 260s my blood pressure when I had it checked was really good. The few times I've had it checked at my current weight of 219ish it's been ok, but higher than when I was a fat fuck.

[quikky]

I think what also matters aside from current blood sugar/lipids/pressure, is the overall trend. For example, if your current blood sugar and A1C are in the normal range, but they have been trending up over time, that could also be an indicator to trim the fat. I know for me, even with a normal cholesterol level, it tends to be in the higher normal range when I carry more fat.

[Philbert]

The guy Cutler was standing with looks like a Men's Physique competitor. They go for the uber thin waist look, which means staying away from loading the core or it will get too thick. If you squat and deadlift heavy weights, you will have a thicker waist, even if you are showing abs. I'm getting pretty close to abs at 34", which isn't that small. Probably still have to lose another 1.5" to get bottom abs. Tops are there. And I'm pretty short at 5'8" / 173 cm. I'm kind of the opinion that these measurements are BS. If you can grab a bunch of fat on your stomach, then you have your answer. If you can only pinch a bit, then you are pretty lean.

If you have thick subcutaneous fat on your abdominal wall you can afford to lose weight. If you do not have such thick fat there it does not follow that you are therefore lean. You may simply be an individual with thin subcutaneous fat. I have seen men with relatively thin subcutaneous fat (visible upper abs) and a 40+ inch waist with significant visceral adiposity and fatty liver.

Very interesting. I'm not used to seeing such people, so I had to look up pictures. What I saw reminded me of my father-in-law. Lean everywhere, but with a hard potbelly. How common is this?

Common enough in middle aged men with some exposure to beer, and cigarettes

Regardless, my rule of thumb above doesn't work for such people. How about this rule - Your shirt should not touch your stomach while you stand. It should just hang from your chest like drapery. Seems like when combined with my other statement (with an "and" clause) then one has a relatively easy test without taking measurements.

I agree, that would cover all cases quite well on an individual level. Depending on how much denial someone is in they may lean forward a little when checking, but those are the same people who will find data on DEXA scan outliers, so no simple measurement is going to help them come to grips with reality.