Abs, I guess

All training and programming related queries and banter here

Moderators: mgil, chromoly, Manveer

User avatar
Hardartery
Registered User
Posts: 3107
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:28 pm
Location: Fat City

Re: Abs, I guess

#41

Post by Hardartery » Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:29 am

I think it's a misunderstanding of what was being said, maybe a deliberate one. It doesn't matter how much ab work you do if you're fat, you aren't getting a six pack. Statements like what Arnold said were aimed at the idea that doing situps would spot reduce fat, because they won't. If you want a six pack, take up jogging and go on a diet. If you want a strong core, work those muscles. But what we got was people misapplying what was being said - much like the famous bit about us only using 10% of our brains. The study being referenced wasn't referencing untapped genius potential it was referencing estimated storage capacity but we all know how that went with the general public's understanding.

User avatar
mbasic
Registered User
Posts: 9331
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:06 am
Age: 104

Re: Abs, I guess

#42

Post by mbasic » Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:20 am

Hardartery wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:29 am I think it's a misunderstanding of what was being said, maybe a deliberate one. It doesn't matter how much ab work you do if you're fat, you aren't getting a six pack.
Yeah I think we all get a super fat person ain't going to have a six pack (except Rip).
meh .... but IMO doing a lot of direct ab work will get you to having a sixpack, or glimspe of a six-pack, faster .... faster than not doing any ab work at all because of the "I'm fat anyway attitude". Who's gonna have more odds of success? Two guys at 30%BF, whoever has been doing a shitton of core work will likely get to 18% first .... AND have a glimpse of Abz at that point .... and then will be the one likely to finish the deal (down to 12-15%).
Statements like what Arnold said were aimed at the idea that doing situps would spot reduce fat, because they won't. If you want a six pack, take up jogging and go on a diet.
I would replace 'jogging', with 'exercise/train more' ...which a ton of abs and core work would fall under that definition. I think jogging is piss poor cardio for most people. Especially overly "fat" people.

Spot fat reduction might be a thing actually.
During physical activity, muscle contraction demands energy; if the energy request is not solved with glycogen store, fats are mobilized from adipose tissue, released into the bloodstream, and carried to target cells to be oxidized. Lipolysis is mediated by hormonal fluxes (catecholamines, insulin and autocrine/paracrine factors), which reach adipose tissue passing through the circulatory network [42,43]. Circulating fatty acids can be provided from any body district, which does not necessarily must be involved with muscular effort; therefore, performing countless series only of a specific exercise may not be sufficient to promote lipolysis in that specific site. However, it was recently observed that lipolytic activity is associated with an increase of blood flow in the adipose tissue and, thus, to the oxygenation of the adipocyte, suggesting that “blood flow and lipolysis are generally higher in subcutaneous adipose tissue adjacent to contracting than adjacent to resting muscle irrespective of exercise intensity. Thus, specific exercises can induce “spot lipolysis” in adipose tissue” [19]. Based on these premises, the goal of spot reduction training should be to increase blood perfusion in the areas where it is most needed, which are where the adipose tissue is located; and sequentially promote fat oxidation. For this reason, the SR protocol we have employed in the present study was composed by a circuit training, in which the localized SAT mobilization was stimulated by target exercises (crunches for the abdomen and dumbbell overhead extension for the triceps), while fat oxidation was induced by the aerobic phases. Apart from our previous pilot study [34], this is the first attempt to use an MCT in an SR protocol.
Just the effect might not be so great, and/or heavily overshadowed if a really fat person is doing a total weightloss program thru extreme dietary changes, cardio exercise.

User avatar
Hardartery
Registered User
Posts: 3107
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:28 pm
Location: Fat City

Re: Abs, I guess

#43

Post by Hardartery » Tue Apr 25, 2023 2:02 pm

mbasic wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:20 am
Hardartery wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:29 am I think it's a misunderstanding of what was being said, maybe a deliberate one. It doesn't matter how much ab work you do if you're fat, you aren't getting a six pack.
Yeah I think we all get a super fat person ain't going to have a six pack (except Rip).
meh .... but IMO doing a lot of direct ab work will get you to having a sixpack, or glimspe of a six-pack, faster .... faster than not doing any ab work at all because of the "I'm fat anyway attitude". Who's gonna have more odds of success? Two guys at 30%BF, whoever has been doing a shitton of core work will likely get to 18% first .... AND have a glimpse of Abz at that point .... and then will be the one likely to finish the deal (down to 12-15%).
Statements like what Arnold said were aimed at the idea that doing situps would spot reduce fat, because they won't. If you want a six pack, take up jogging and go on a diet.
I would replace 'jogging', with 'exercise/train more' ...which a ton of abs and core work would fall under that definition. I think jogging is piss poor cardio for most people. Especially overly "fat" people.

Spot fat reduction might be a thing actually.
During physical activity, muscle contraction demands energy; if the energy request is not solved with glycogen store, fats are mobilized from adipose tissue, released into the bloodstream, and carried to target cells to be oxidized. Lipolysis is mediated by hormonal fluxes (catecholamines, insulin and autocrine/paracrine factors), which reach adipose tissue passing through the circulatory network [42,43]. Circulating fatty acids can be provided from any body district, which does not necessarily must be involved with muscular effort; therefore, performing countless series only of a specific exercise may not be sufficient to promote lipolysis in that specific site. However, it was recently observed that lipolytic activity is associated with an increase of blood flow in the adipose tissue and, thus, to the oxygenation of the adipocyte, suggesting that “blood flow and lipolysis are generally higher in subcutaneous adipose tissue adjacent to contracting than adjacent to resting muscle irrespective of exercise intensity. Thus, specific exercises can induce “spot lipolysis” in adipose tissue” [19]. Based on these premises, the goal of spot reduction training should be to increase blood perfusion in the areas where it is most needed, which are where the adipose tissue is located; and sequentially promote fat oxidation. For this reason, the SR protocol we have employed in the present study was composed by a circuit training, in which the localized SAT mobilization was stimulated by target exercises (crunches for the abdomen and dumbbell overhead extension for the triceps), while fat oxidation was induced by the aerobic phases. Apart from our previous pilot study [34], this is the first attempt to use an MCT in an SR protocol.
Just the effect might not be so great, and/or heavily overshadowed if a really fat person is doing a total weightloss program thru extreme dietary changes, cardio exercise.
Obviously we can be in agreement that doing the ab work is going to give a person more to work with as far as when and what shows up as the BF% comes down.
Absolutely.
The only thing I have seen that could appear to be spot reduction has been hypertrophy spreading the fat across a greater piece of geography, That's the only thing that seems to happen in real life. For most people, simply initiating a jogging program of some kind will get it done. It may not be the "Best" form of anything, but it's accessible and easy to implement while reaching reasonable milestones of progress and will get the Dadbod guy "Beach ready" fairly quickly. I don't care for it, but it burns a lot of calories over time. It also matters that men tend to carry fat under the muscle, so a reduction in fat shows up quickly on us and allows for things like Eddie Hall having abs over top of that gut.

Post Reply