Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

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timelinex
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Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#1

Post by timelinex » Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:54 am

Hello everyone, long time no post. I am just hopping back into the workout world so my memory is a bit rusty and I hope you guys could get me started in the right direction. I am looking for a good set of big movements that fit my criteria to restart my strength journey without all the gnawing pains and resentment that I have towards the gym.
I would love advice on alternative sets of movements for the basic squat that will still hit all the right muscles. I am also open to any advice in general as long as it's not "how to fix my squat".
Long story short:
  • Worked out for many years using powerlifting focused routines as ultimately I value strength in big movements over looks. Started at SS but ended up with BBM/Tuscherer/Nuckols point of view on working out
  • Hit almost all my initial lifetime goals (5/4/3 plates at ~200lb) and stopped when my 2nd was born around 2 years ago
  • Time was a factor but it was mostly how excruciatingly unenjoyable it was and how often I would have gnawing pains (usually squat related)
  • I acknowledge any type of working out > no working out because can't do everything that I think is important to do
  • Just started again
  • Using SS type programming at the very beginning (using the big lifts 3x5 in rotation and adding weight every time...but none of the dogmatic ideology)
Here is my history with the classic movements:
  • Benching: I don't think anything needs changing here. It is relatively my strongest and best movements. Unbelievably enough, my untrained bench is quite a bit stronger than my untrained squat. I've had plenty of pain issues with bench, but I am pretty positive they never start with bench. For example elbow/shoulder pain....But it's because the pain starts with the squat and then benching further aggravates it.
  • Deadlift: Another relatively strong movement for me because my back is abnormally strong. But I do have a lower back that is prone to pulling. I think the way I was deadlifting may be too much volume. I was doing it BBM style (i.e no reason to treat it differently than other lifts. So depending on the routine I was doing 5 sets a session). I don't think I have ever pulled my back going HEAVY. I think it's always from it being overly exhausted and then I pick up a pencil the wrong way. So I'm thinking I may try to explore that even though it's against typical dogma. I've started doing one top set of 5 and thats it (not including warmup sets). But I'm open to suggestions otherwise as I acknowledge that the only reason I'm keeping them in is because I'm strong in them and it feels good to know I can lift heavy weights off the floor. :roll: It just feels good physically and mentally. I'd probably be super happy to just do a top set of 1@8 and be done with deadlift, but that is alot of time (warmups) just to do 1 set of 1 haha
  • Squat: The bane of my existence. I've spent years trying to get this movement comfortable. Not just time either. I've done endless video self critiques, video critiques from forum members and coaches, and trying all sorts of different forms. I have even went to starting strength coaches (back when I followed them). Low bar squat is my strongest by far and it feels good on my back/hips/knees. But it KILLS my elbows, wrists and shoulder. High bar squat doesn't kill anything in particular but eventually I start getting shoulder/wrist pain because even for HBBS I can't reach far back enough without pressure. It's a flexibility and not a basic form issue. I could do a HBBS with no hands if I had to. But getting my hands on the bar in any way over extends my flexibility. I also start getting hip & lower back pain with HBBS. The only way to prevent that is squatting slightly above parallel... Which is obviously not good either. So I end up in a vicious cycle where things start flaring up more or less but atleast one thing is always flared up and hurting even with HBBS.
Here is where I'm at now:
  • Benching: <3
  • Deadlifting: No direct issues, but I have already skipped 1 out of 2 deadlift days because my lower back felt sensitive from the squats before it. I'm not basing this off some kind of movement fear, but rather going off the fatigue I feel there. I am trying to use my best judgement instead of my natural judgement of PUSH THROUGH THE PAIN YOU'LL BE FINE.
  • Squat: I was smart enough not to try low bar. I did High Bar and immediately remembered all my issues. Nothing killed but immediately needed to wear wrist straps for my wrists, my shoulders were tired, my lower back felt sensitive. Very off putting considering I am using LOW weight. I tried 2 workouts with my Duffalo bar and it mostly helped. It's a bit weird doing high bar with it because if it's not placed perfectly it shifts against my spine neck bone. Also, while it alleviated the shoulder strain and the need for wrist straps, I still feel a little bit of tension in my wrist. There is no weight carried by them, but it's more like "no one's wrist feels good when it's flexed all the way to the end of it's ROM". I'm wonder if I should see where this goes or just say "why am I accepting any strain at all and I should just use my rogue SSB". From what I remember, the SSB is a great alternative but it works different muscles than a squat and leaves some openings. If I am remembering correctly, I could SSB squat basically as much as my regular squat, but once things got heavy, the movement started to look like I was really leveraging my strong back muscles instead of working my legs.
I'm not looking for advice on how to fix my standard squat. Believe me. I have tried almost everything you are likely to suggest. I am sure a solution exists, but if I make this about 'fixing my squat' I will likely just stop working out. But advice on anything else would be greatly appreciated!

I've got a basic powerlifting type home gym with many different bars (including trap bar) & dumbbells. I also have a dual cable pulley machine.
Last edited by timelinex on Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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augeleven
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Re: Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#2

Post by augeleven » Mon Oct 31, 2022 10:52 am

Bottom line: nothing matters, everything is permitted. Squat what you will, and let that be the whole of the law.

Do whatever you enjoy. I like an SSB squat for avoiding upper joint issues.
ETA if you are trying to hit your legs more than your back, I would drop the weight, do higher reps and try to keep a more upright back and narrower stance. Maybe play around with elevating the heels.
ETA 2 - have you tried pre-fatiguing your legs? Maybe try some wenning warmups aka 4x25 goblet/bw squat. Joe Defranco talks about structuring workouts like this too in order to get an adequate leg stimulus, albeit from a “washed up meathead” perspective.

You could probably just do leg blasters and that would work also.
https://mtntactical.com/research/geek-c ... -strength/
Last edited by augeleven on Mon Oct 31, 2022 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#3

Post by timelinex » Mon Oct 31, 2022 10:55 am

augeleven wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 10:52 am Bottom line: nothing matters, everything is permitted. Squat what you will, and let that be the whole of the law.

Do whatever you enjoy. I like an SSB squat for avoiding upper joint issues.
You could probably just do leg blasters and that would work also.
https://mtntactical.com/research/geek-c ... -strength/
Ideologically, I agree.

However I know part of the motivation that I am using to get back into the gym in the first place is my desire to be strong in the big 3. So while I'm open to getting away from squats, I would like to still have some kind of transference.

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Re: Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#4

Post by augeleven » Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:04 am

I hear you. I’m almost done with a 14 week block of low bar squatting, which normally trashes my elbows something fierce. So far I’ve survived, But I probably won’t low bar for a couple months at least.
I’m glad I was able to low bar, because I had given up on it, but I’m super excited to push my SSB for 5 sets of 10. Probably won’t be super excited 6 weeks in, and then will go back to high bar.

Another weird idea - maybe do rehab/bodybuilding-style stuff in the areas that cause pain. Like back raises and hammer curls??

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Re: Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#5

Post by Hardartery » Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:10 am

timelinex wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:54 am
I would love advice on alternative sets of movements for the basic squat that will still hit all the right muscles. I am also open to any advice in general as long as it's not "how to fix my squat".

Here is where I'm at now:
  • Benching: <3
  • Deadlifting: No direct issues, but I have already skipped 1 out of 2 deadlift days because my lower back felt sensitive from the squats before it. I'm not basing this off some kind of movement fear, but rather going off the fatigue I feel there. I am trying to use my best judgement instead of my natural judgement of PUSH THROUGH THE PAIN YOU'LL BE FINE.
  • Squat: I was smart enough not to try low back. I did High Bar and immediately remembered all my issues. Nothing killed but immediately needed to wear wrist straps for my wrists, my shoulders were tired, my lower back felt sensitive. Very off putting considering I am using LOW weight. I tried 2 workouts with my Duffalo bar and it mostly helped. It's a bit weird doing high bar with it because if it's not placed perfectly it shifts against my spine neck bone. Also, while it alleviated the shoulder strain and the need for wrist straps, I still feel a little bit of tension in my wrist. There is no weight carried by them, but it's more like "no one's wrist feels good when it's flexed all the way to the end of it's ROM". I'm wonder if I should see where this goes or just say "why am I accepting any strain at all and I should just use my rogue SSB". From what I remember, the SSB is a great alternative but it works different muscles than a squat and leaves some openings. If I am remembering correctly, I could SSB squat basically as much as my regular squat, but once things got heavy, the movement started to look like I was really leveraging my strong back muscles instead of working my legs.
I'm not looking for advice on how to fix my standard squat. Believe me. I have tried almost everything you are likely to suggest. I am sure a solution exists, but if I make this about 'fixing my squat' I will likely just stop working out. But advice on anything else would be greatly appreciated!

I've got a basic powerlifting type home gym with many different bars (including trap bar) & dumbbells. I also have a dual cable pulley machine.
Nothing wrong with what you were doing with DL, other than frequency. You can't do that multiple times a week and get anywhere once you leave beginner levels. It's too much accumulated stress and requires more recovery as the weights progress.
Squats are almost certainly the reason for the Bench issues that you have had. But more directly a complete significant lack shoulder flexibility is the source. You can fix the flexibility issues, or use a SSB or Spider Bar and not fix them and still be happy. Low Bar (I am assuming that's what you mean by Low Back) Squats are just a bigger strain against the inflexibility, so they are going to tear stuff up more. Not a giant leap to figure that out.
So, what are you doing for upper back? Posterior Delts? Rhomboids? Can you do an Overhead Squat or is it impossible to get the bar position far enough back to perform it?

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Re: Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#6

Post by timelinex » Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:01 pm

Hardartery wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:10 am Nothing wrong with what you were doing with DL, other than frequency. You can't do that multiple times a week and get anywhere once you leave beginner levels. It's too much accumulated stress and requires more recovery as the weights progress.
What do you think about my idea of only doing 1 top set of 5 or even going as extreme as a top single. Could it still be effective or am I just adding unnecessary stress that isn't contributing to getting stronger at that point.
Hardartery wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:10 am Squats are almost certainly the reason for the Bench issues that you have had. But more directly a complete significant lack shoulder flexibility is the source. You can fix the flexibility issues, or use a SSB or Spider Bar and not fix them and still be happy. Low Bar (I am assuming that's what you mean by Low Back) Squats are just a bigger strain against the inflexibility, so they are going to tear stuff up more. Not a giant leap to figure that out.
So, what are you doing for upper back? Posterior Delts? Rhomboids? Can you do an Overhead Squat or is it impossible to get the bar position far enough back to perform it?
Yes, I meant low bar back squat. Not sure why it came out low back.

I am currently doing Benching 2x a week and OHP 1x a week. I am not doing rows, but plan to add them in shortly. I am also planning on adding low impact small muscle groups too within a few months (things like curls)

Inflexibility is certainly the root cause of most my issues. I have done concurrent flexibility training in the past and the problem is it only overloads the areas even more. I can focus on flexibility in those areas, but I hate stretching or stretching type movements more than I hate working out. :lol: As I mentioned, I am sure there are things that can be done to fix the issue and maybe one day I will cross that bridge. During my "habit forming" weeks, I want to stay away from anything under my control that will make forming the gym habit even harder.

Overhead squats aren't really good for me I don't think...As mentioned, I do OHP, but even with that my form isn't ideal. I can't get the barbell back into a good upright center of mass position on full extension. My shoulders just don't currently go that far back. But I still get decently strong on the lift with an around BW max. I did have pains with it but in a similar way as benching as I think the pains were all squat related. Around the end of my "career" I stopped doing them because my shoulders were getting too much abuse so I took them out while keeping bench/squat.

Do I have to worry about my legs falling behind even further by using a SSB? As I mentioned, I think the lift does start becoming back heavy for me in a way that LBBS does. (It's possible I'm remembering wrong though?)

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Re: Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#7

Post by timelinex » Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:07 pm

augeleven wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:04 am I hear you. I’m almost done with a 14 week block of low bar squatting, which normally trashes my elbows something fierce. So far I’ve survived, But I probably won’t low bar for a couple months at least.
I’m glad I was able to low bar, because I had given up on it, but I’m super excited to push my SSB for 5 sets of 10. Probably won’t be super excited 6 weeks in, and then will go back to high bar.

Another weird idea - maybe do rehab/bodybuilding-style stuff in the areas that cause pain. Like back raises and hammer curls??
Eventually I will add the smaller lifts. I just wanted to focus on getting my overall strength back up and considering how low my MEV/MRV is when just starting, I don't think I need to add them in.

Off topic, but I wanted to add that I remember your username from way back in the day. If I remember your stats from way back correctly, you've had great progress! Nothing beats consistency and staying in the game. Congrats.

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Re: Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#8

Post by mgil » Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:16 pm

If you’re not going to compete…

SSB is pretty good for squats. Yeah, the movement is a little different.

If you pick up a cheap low handles trap bar, you can basically do trap bar deadlifts as a “standing leg press” to get good overall leg work.

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Re: Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#9

Post by KOTJ » Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:45 pm

mgil wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:16 pm If you’re not going to compete…

SSB is pretty good for squats. Yeah, the movement is a little different.

If you pick up a cheap low handles trap bar, you can basically do trap bar deadlifts as a “standing leg press” to get good overall leg work.
Second the motion for SSB if you're not competing, and HBS and lbs bother you

Bonus movements: lunges and such

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Re: Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#10

Post by janoycresva » Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:54 pm

you could probably be decently strong at squatting just by doing a small number of heavy sets per week and then doing a shitload of direct quad work and hinge work, I’m trying this approach now since I’ve had similar issues with squats just annihilating my joints and will to live

also I love how SSB squats feel from the chest up, but they chew my knees up really bad, I’m still dealing with some patellar tendonitis that set in last summer when I was pushing SSB squats hard

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Re: Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#11

Post by cole » Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:45 pm

1. squat
a. high bar
b. low bar
c. front squat
2. DL
a. Conventional
b. Sumo
c. SLDL, SGDL

All these hit the posterior muscles you seek to train. I think, as you know, there are many ways to do this by varying rep ranges, load, tempo, and frequency. But unless you have machines at home like a hack squat or leg press, you are pretty much gonna get the best results from those barbell movements. Sorry I dont have a more exciting answer for you

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Re: Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#12

Post by Hardartery » Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:11 pm

timelinex wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:01 pm
I am currently doing Benching 2x a week and OHP 1x a week. I am not doing rows, but plan to add them in shortly. I am also planning on adding low impact small muscle groups too within a few months (things like curls)

Inflexibility is certainly the root cause of most my issues. I have done concurrent flexibility training in the past and the problem is it only overloads the areas even more. I can focus on flexibility in those areas, but I hate stretching or stretching type movements more than I hate working out. :lol: As I mentioned, I am sure there are things that can be done to fix the issue and maybe one day I will cross that bridge. During my "habit forming" weeks, I want to stay away from anything under my control that will make forming the gym habit even harder.

Overhead squats aren't really good for me I don't think...As mentioned, I do OHP, but even with that my form isn't ideal. I can't get the barbell back into a good upright center of mass position on full extension. My shoulders just don't currently go that far back. But I still get decently strong on the lift with an around BW max. I did have pains with it but in a similar way as benching as I think the pains were all squat related. Around the end of my "career" I stopped doing them because my shoulders were getting too much abuse so I took them out while keeping bench/squat.

Do I have to worry about my legs falling behind even further by using a SSB? As I mentioned, I think the lift does start becoming back heavy for me in a way that LBBS does. (It's possible I'm remembering wrong though?)
Your legs won't fall behind using a SSB. The pad puts the bar quite high up relative to the traps and the offset helps stack the weight over the joints. It's a bit of adjustment initially, but you may find that you can actually get more direct leg work from the SSB. You can turn anything into a Goodmorning, but I think if you ease into them without getting too competitive I think you'll find them to be the ticket. Leg Press or a Leg Curl/Leg Extension machine might round it out as well if you feel more direct leg work is needed.

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Re: Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#13

Post by timelinex » Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:02 pm

I appreciate all the advise guys!

Based on everything said here, I have decided that I will continue the Duffalo High Bar Squat. At the current time wrists are just a little uncomfortable but not in pain and today was better than last time. So I will monitor things as I get used to the movement and have zero hesitation in moving to the SSB if I feel anything starting to hurt from it.

Any comments on my deadlift plan of 2x a week of only 1 top set. Maybe even the 1@8+ idea? Do some people respond to focusing on intensity in the DL, or am I going to have to decide on eventually adding volume or ditching it all together for another movement?

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Re: Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#14

Post by Hardartery » Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:07 pm

timelinex wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:02 pm I appreciate all the advise guys!

Based on everything said here, I have decided that I will continue the Duffalo High Bar Squat. At the current time wrists are just a little uncomfortable but not in pain and today was better than last time. So I will monitor things as I get used to the movement and have zero hesitation in moving to the SSB if I feel anything starting to hurt from it.

Any comments on my deadlift plan of 2x a week of only 1 top set. Maybe even the 1@8+ idea? Do some people respond to focusing on intensity in the DL, or am I going to have to decide on eventually adding volume or ditching it all together for another movement?
I wouldn't push the intensity on the second DL day. A little lower RPE volume might serve you better than hitting that 1 @ 8 twice a week.

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Re: Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#15

Post by janoycresva » Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:32 pm

timelinex wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:02 pm I appreciate all the advise guys!

Based on everything said here, I have decided that I will continue the Duffalo High Bar Squat. At the current time wrists are just a little uncomfortable but not in pain and today was better than last time. So I will monitor things as I get used to the movement and have zero hesitation in moving to the SSB if I feel anything starting to hurt from it.

Any comments on my deadlift plan of 2x a week of only 1 top set. Maybe even the 1@8+ idea? Do some people respond to focusing on intensity in the DL, or am I going to have to decide on eventually adding volume or ditching it all together for another movement?
As long as you have posterior chain volume coming from somewhere (not necessarily deadlifts) I think a lot of people respond very well to intensity on deadlifts.

Maybe an extreme example, but I was able to take one working set a week into the 500s for a 1rm, and volume based deadlift approaches I’ve tried since don’t seem to be any more effective for me than just one or two heavy sets and some fluff hip extension work. I don’t have trouble doing or recovering from volume on deadlifts, there just seems to be no or little added benefit despite doing shitloads more working sets.

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Re: Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#16

Post by timelinex » Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:53 pm

Hardartery wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:07 pm I wouldn't push the intensity on the second DL day. A little lower RPE volume might serve you better than hitting that 1 @ 8 twice a week.
janoycresva wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:32 pm As long as you have posterior chain volume coming from somewhere (not necessarily deadlifts) I think a lot of people respond very well to intensity on deadlifts.

Maybe an extreme example, but I was able to take one working set a week into the 500s for a 1rm, and volume based deadlift approaches I’ve tried since don’t seem to be any more effective for me than just one or two heavy sets and some fluff hip extension work. I don’t have trouble doing or recovering from volume on deadlifts, there just seems to be no or little added benefit despite doing shitloads more working sets.
OK. The tentative plan is to do top set programming 2x a week for the "easy" muscle-memory gains, then I will just try switching to either a top set of 1@8+ (or maybe 3@8) once a week and a different set of posterior chain exercises the other days. I guess can't know how I respond till I try!

Thanks again for the input

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Re: Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#17

Post by CheekiBreekiFitness » Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:54 am

What about belt squats ? It takes the upper body completely out of the equation, you can blast the volume and go as close to failure as you want, you can choose the torso angle by holding on to something, and it's doable in a homegym (there are several DIY options).

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Re: Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#18

Post by timelinex » Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:25 am

CheekiBreekiFitness wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:54 am What about belt squats ? It takes the upper body completely out of the equation, you can blast the volume and go as close to failure as you want, you can choose the torso angle by holding on to something, and it's doable in a homegym (there are several DIY options).
I haven't seen a home DIY option that wasn't clumsy. Maybe there has been some innovations I haven't seen that recently gained ground?

I also don't like it as a main movement at the current time because it completely takes out the upper body. So It's not actually as big of a compound movement.

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Re: Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#19

Post by janoycresva » Sun Nov 06, 2022 9:25 pm

timelinex wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:25 am I haven't seen a home DIY option that wasn't clumsy. Maybe there has been some innovations I haven't seen that recently gained ground?

I also don't like it as a main movement at the current time because it completely takes out the upper body. So It's not actually as big of a compound movement.
I haven't either, I tried attaching the Ironmind belt to a barbell like Mike Tuscherer does but there's just no fucking way I was going to actually do that consistently.

I got the BoS belt squat and it's been great, a little arduous to assemble and they oversell the utility of it a little (I tried doing rows on it and it felt like straight dogshit) but it doesn't kill my knees and I can annihilate my quads.

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Re: Big movement ideas in my Home Gym

#20

Post by timelinex » Fri Nov 18, 2022 11:27 am

Just wanted to give a quick update. I settled on using an SSB so I could take out any strain from the equation. I am SO thankful and happy you guys nudged me into going that route. Progress has been slow and steady, but not haven't anything hurt (other than my aching lower back) during or after is mind blowing. Almost feels illegal.

Going on vacation for 10 days but will be back to the slow grind up when I'm back.

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