Re: Programming lifting for weight loss
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:51 am
I think if you want to go higher reps on the compounds during a cut, you have to back off of the iso work a little. Doing both is probably going to be too much in a cut for most guys unless the RPE/RIR is so low that it's basically pointless work. My body does not like anything above 5 reps on compound work, period, so that plays into it a little. But, Pushing an intensity that puts most guys into 3-5 reps is going to limit strength loss during the cut and also not cap out the recovery. It's an attempt at going just hard enough to keep the fibre recruitment while not driving you too far into overtraining. For some guys that may be a higher rep range, but most guys are going to see a big fall off at higher ranges. You can get it back fairly quickly, but that generally requires a surplus for a while. I also think that talk of leverages is mostly overstated. The average guys is not going to fell much if any difference going up or down 20 lbs as far as leverages go, unless they are discussing how it affects a Squat Suit or a shirt maybe. But it really doesn't affect Raw leverages much if at all.janoycresva wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:34 amI would disagree with lowering reps on compounds during a cut. In general higher reps (not necessarily high reps, but something like 8-12 vs. 3-5) will have higher stimulus to fatigue ratio for hypertrophy, and even though hypertrophy won't occur on a cut you still want to send the biggest signal for muscle retention with the least fatigue. Anecdotally, whenever I tried to hang on to my low rep strength for dear life, I had significantly worse results than when I shifted emphasis to higher reps.Hardartery wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:00 pm Training while in a deficit is largely about recovery management. There is no hypertrophy in a calorie deficit, so just chuck any notion of that out the window and don't worry about it. It just won't happen without chemical assistance and it is largely irrelevant if you have a weight goal as opposed to a measurement goal (Like I want my waist to be X for example). Lower reps on compound movements, higher reps with lighter weights on iso stuff because that will burn more calories and have less direct negative impact on recovery. Cardio past your health needs is largely not productive in weight loss past the direct impact on CICO, and it is not the most effecient way to burn calories unless you are really going for it and trying to run a marathon or do an Ironman thing.
Diet seemingly matters past simple CICO. I know, that's blasphemy in the current fitness belief climate for many. But, I have heard several coaches lately discuss diet approach for their non-pro athlete clients who just want to not be fat and dead. A common approach seems to be low carb/keto initially and then a gradual introduction of carbs back into the diet over time. The stated reason I keep hearing is that the no carb period helps boost metabolism and then slowly adding in quality carbs improves the training while not screwing up the metabolism. The balance of CICO still has to be maintained, but it is claimed that it pushes the needle of caloric needs up making it easier to be in a mild deficit and not killing the metabolism in the process. I am not stating that this is in fact true for you or anyone else, just what is currently being used by many professional coaches I have heard of late. It does seem to be the case for me, personally. I am back on a slow cut and my calories are higher than they have been on quite a few years. I am largely keto, with letting myself have somereasonable carbs once a week or so. Generally along the lines of one normal meal or part of a meal (Like three slices of sourdough with my normal eggs one day, or dinner out eating something not over the top). My daily intake of calories is slowly creeping up, but I am still losing.
Also, depending on how deep you get into a cut your leverages might get significantly less favorable for most big compounds, which shows up more on heavy sets IME. There's also some evidence for fiber conversion in a deficit in favor of slow twitch fibers, and conditioning in general tends to be better at lower bodyfat, so high rep work tends not to eat shit quite as hard as your lower rep work. Generally agree with what you said about higher rep isolation work for the same reasons, but I think any calorie burn that adds will probably be pretty minimal.
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The biggest cut I've ever done (years ago, maybe 2017 or so) was 235->185 @ 12% bf. I retained most of my muscle mass, but I could have done it much better than I did. If I had to do that cut again (hopefully not in this lifetime), I would change a few things (pretty much all based on Renaissance Periodization recommendations combined with my observations during that cut):
1. Phasic dieting. I would have gone 235->215, then 215->200, then 200-> 190, then 190->185 (maybe). These phases would be interrupted by maintenance periods equal in length to the time spent dieting. I imagine the final cut from 190->185 would not have been so brutal if I had done this, it turned into some kind of fucked up 1800 calorie pseudo-PSMF deathmarch. It probably would not have taken any longer either, since my TDEE became so incredibly low towards the end due to the almost year spent in a deficit (I was eating 1800 cal/day at 6'3" 190lbs, training 4x/week, and losing maybe 0.5lb/week).
2. Deload in a more structured way, and make sure my deloads were at maintenance calories. There were periods where I really accumulated way, way too much fatigue and it compromised my training.
3. Abandon powerlifting style training entirely deeper into the cut (maybe once I dropped below 210, for sure below 200). Train in bodybuilding rep ranges with bodybuilding exercise selections (maximizing stimulus to fatigue ratio, minimizing technical demand, minimizing mental focus required to execute the lift - lots of machine and cable shit, dumbbell work, some higher rep barbell compounds but only those I tolerate well and don't beat me up). I would also have thrown in some bodyweight shit and set goals based on that, like Hanley suggested earlier. Doing things that improve with leanness is always a good psychological boost on a cut. I was doing heavy sets of fahve on squats and deadlifts on extremely restricted calories and stimulating basically nothing but my joints and involuntary hardship organelles, this was extremely stupid.
4. Be cognizant of reductions in NEAT and actively try to fight them. If I find myself almost subconsciously parking my car super close to the office, or taking the elevator instead of the stairs, or just sinking into the couch when I could be moving around and doing something, try to fight that. That shit definitely adds up in terms of calorie expenditure, and it's less fatiguing than pretty much any cardio modality for the amount of calories burned. I'd get more done, too.