mbasic wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:01 am
TIL that (most all) dummy rounds used on movie sets have the primers removed (and stay removed), and powder replaced by two ball bearings so that rounds rattle. You can visually see that there's no primer and/or Helen fucking Keller could feel them rattle within her hands.
Do I think that what has surely been a multi-million dollar investigation, and what would almost certainly be a multi-million dollar criminal prosecution, are good uses of resources when there are murderers and rapists to catch? No.
But the more I have learned about this, I am convinced that when it comes down to it both Baldwin and the armorer did a manslaughter.
Re: Guns and Shit
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 5:22 pm
by BostonRugger
Re: Guns and Shit
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:49 pm
by aurelius
mikeylikey wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:17 pmDo I think that what has surely been a multi-million dollar investigation, and what would almost certainly be a multi-million dollar criminal prosecution, are good uses of resources when there are murderers and rapists to catch? No.
There are how many untested rape kits? But that doesn't get the DA and Sheriff TV time.
Re: Guns and Shit
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:28 am
by mbasic
the new smart optic for the US military
Re: Guns and Shit
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:36 pm
by BostonRugger
mbasic wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:28 am
the new smart optic for the US military
Although Vortex makes a solid product, I did not htink they'd be bringing us into the future. Good for them.
Speaking of on the up optics brands, I decided to mix with the common people and ordered a Holosun 507K for my little Sig.
Re: Guns and Shit
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:42 pm
by aurelius
BostonRugger wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:36 pmAlthough Vortex makes a solid product, I did not htink they'd be bringing us into the future. Good for them.
From watching the video, this will allow the average US soldier to reliably make shots at up to 700 yards. That is game changing. 100% the next big thing for personal firearms.
BostonRugger wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:36 pmAlthough Vortex makes a solid product, I did not htink they'd be bringing us into the future. Good for them.
From watching the video, this will allow the average US soldier to reliably make shots at up to 700 yards. That is game changing. 100% the next big thing for personal firearms.
I understand based on what I've read that the new generation of optic is integral to the planned switchover from 5.56 to 6.8. Without it, the tradeoff in capacity wouldn't make a lot of sense, but if you can shoot like a video game with the cheat codes, that tips the scales in favor of having fewer, bigger bullets.
Re: Guns and Shit
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:05 am
by aurelius
mikeylikey wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:38 amI understand based on what I've read that the new generation of optic is integral to the planned switchover from 5.56 to 6.8. Without it, the tradeoff in capacity wouldn't make a lot of sense, but if you can shoot like a video game with the cheat codes, that tips the scales in favor of having fewer, bigger bullets.
trying to learn from the war in UKR, which has turned into a WW1-esque artillery war; this would be a game changer as it would push the enemy lines several hundred yards further back from the US line. Imagine being in a trench 200-300 yards from a US military equipped with this weapon system? Hey Sasha. Pop your head over the trench to see what they are up to. Nope.
Essentially this furthers the US capability to force opponents to engage us urban areas and places where visibility and mobility is limited. That is a huge advantage as it allows the US military to control huge swathes of countryside, supply lines, and strategically determine when and where battles take place. Very hard to win war against an opponent when you cede initiative, mobility, and logistics.
I would laugh at this if I hadn't actually paid $200, only to be retroactively informed by ATF that the titanium tube (literally a titanium tube) that I purchased might - in itself - be a silencer (as determined by the whim of some govt lawyer from a 4th-rate law school with a shitbird take on the classic Ship of Theseus problem) and that I had paid $200 for the incorrect form (again, because titanium tubes are silencers)
But then a field agent said I was probably a-okay.
Then ATF legal said probably not.
Then another field agent said really, really probably a-okay.
Then the ATF stopped interpreting their own impossibly obtuse shit and went quiet.
BostonRugger wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:36 pmAlthough Vortex makes a solid product, I did not htink they'd be bringing us into the future. Good for them.
From watching the video, this will allow the average US soldier to reliably make shots at up to 700 yards. That is game changing. 100% the next big thing for personal firearms.
A crazy leap in the tech. I don't know a ton about gov/mil contracts, but from what I read Vortex is obligated to fulfill their mil contract before they could start w civilian market. Which takes years. That said, I don't see (bc total ignorance) why Trijicon or Aimpoint couldn't take a stab at something similar for civ market.
Re: Guns and Shit
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:23 am
by mbasic
BostonRugger wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 7:32 am
That said, I don't see (bc total ignorance) why Trijicon or Aimpoint couldn't take a stab at something similar for civ market.
uhh... enormous expense maybe? vs. the number of civilian hobbyist shooters that would buy/afford them?
I read 10-11K per unit somewhere. Maybe that's infliated a bit, and meeting milspecs have something to do with that ....
....even if they could get down to $5K or $4K in the future..... I don't think they would sell many.
I'm probably wrong.
Re: Guns and Shit
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:30 pm
by aurelius
BostonRugger wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 7:32 amA crazy leap in the tech. I don't know a ton about gov/mil contracts, but from what I read Vortex is obligated to fulfill their mil contract before they could start w civilian market. Which takes years. That said, I don't see (bc total ignorance) why Trijicon or Aimpoint couldn't take a stab at something similar for civ market.
I think there are existing systems that combine laser range finders and scopes. The 'leap' is the combining all of the features into a single 'one button' click package that turns a basic soldier into a competent sniper. Similar to how Apple didn't invent the smart phone. It just made it attractive and easy to use.
BostonRugger wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 7:32 amA crazy leap in the tech. I don't know a ton about gov/mil contracts, but from what I read Vortex is obligated to fulfill their mil contract before they could start w civilian market. Which takes years. That said, I don't see (bc total ignorance) why Trijicon or Aimpoint couldn't take a stab at something similar for civ market.
I think there are existing systems that combine laser range finders and scopes. The 'leap' is the combining all of the features into a single 'one button' click package that turns a basic soldier into a competent sniper. Similar to how Apple didn't invent the smart phone. It just made it attractive and easy to use.
I don't think it'll increase hit probability that much until it's also integrated with the trigger. AFIAK you still have to operate the trigger to fire, which at anything over 200 yards (under stress) is likely to cause a miss. If/when it goes to a set trigger or has some form of electronic workaround then it will. From what I've read it's at least 2 generations away from this.
Re: Guns and Shit
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:51 am
by mikeylikey
5hout wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 7:49 am
I don't think it'll increase hit probability that much until it's also integrated with the trigger. AFIAK you still have to operate the trigger to fire, which at anything over 200 yards (under stress) is likely to cause a miss. If/when it goes to a set trigger or has some form of electronic workaround then it will. From what I've read it's at least 2 generations away from this.
But maybe the fact that you can now engage the bad guy well outside of his effective range means you have a little more freedom of time and movement to get a stable platform from which to take the shot, as well as a few extra breaths. I mean most of the skill of a sniper is not actually in the hold or the trigger pull, which is why the spotter is usually the senior guy in a team.
5hout wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 7:49 am
I don't think it'll increase hit probability that much until it's also integrated with the trigger. AFIAK you still have to operate the trigger to fire, which at anything over 200 yards (under stress) is likely to cause a miss. If/when it goes to a set trigger or has some form of electronic workaround then it will. From what I've read it's at least 2 generations away from this.
But maybe the fact that you can now engage the bad guy well outside of his effective range means you have a little more freedom of time and movement to get a stable platform from which to take the shot, as well as a few extra breaths. I mean most of the skill of a sniper is not actually in the hold or the trigger pull, which is why the spotter is usually the senior guy in a team.
Source: movies.
This could be colored by being halfway through "A Rifleman Went to War" autobiography of a machine gunner/sniper in WW1, but that seems like an excellent way to get shot by someone that is 20% closer than you expect them to be. Per this book most successfully sniping was done via being sneakily closer, not better at shooting. Clearly the most up to date text
Cellist wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:15 pmAndrew F. Branca makes the point that mere negligence is sufficient for involuntary manslaughter with the use of a firearm. Because of the dangerous nature of guns, there is a lower standard than usual and being an actor on a film set isn't a reason to get off for that, according to him. This would concur with my common sense and I can't see any drawbacks for the greater good, but am willing to be convinced otherwise.
"The only legally relevant facts to an analysis of whether Alec Baldwin appears to have committed felony involuntary manslaughter is whether he pointed a loaded gun at Ms. Hutchins, and that gun discharged and killed her without any intervening event between pointing and death that could relieve Alec Baldwin of legal responsibility." That statement might be true in Massachusetts. But everywhere else: not so much. Which is a good thing. This guy is hoot. His legal breakdown is a joke. His drunk driving comparison not even remotely in the ball park of the Rust shooting. And the statement above encapsulates Mr. Branca's 'reasoning'. Come on, man.
People shoot people ALL THE TIME. People accidentally shoot people stating they did not know the gun was loaded. Hunters shoot other hunters because they saw movement when they knew there buddy was ahead of them. Rarely are charges are brought. There has to be other mitigating factors.
Baldwin was given a firearm he had every expectation, to the point of certainty, was not loaded with live ammunition. There was a process in place that had TWO people (one of whom is an expert) check his firearm for live ammunition. His actions that day are 100% within the duty of care set by the movie industry standards. Therefore Baldwin's actions cannot be reckless nor can they be negligent.
To be clear, there are no disputed facts regarding Baldwin's actions. If the DA was going to charge Baldwin, they would have already.
*looks like North Carolina is the correct answer. Was reading an article comparing the two shootings and got my wires crossed.
Many other actors have said they “always check their guns or have someone check it front of them,” New Mexico First Judicial District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies told CNN shortly after announcing her intention of charging actor Alec Baldwin and film armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed with involuntary manslaughter.
Many other actors have said they “always check their guns or have someone check it front of them,” New Mexico First Judicial District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies told CNN shortly after announcing her intention of charging actor Alec Baldwin and film armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed with involuntary manslaughter.
Good.
Outsourcing a task doesn’t mean you’ve outsourced responsibility.
That said, our legal system caters to the rich. Don’t expect accountability.
Many other actors have said they “always check their guns or have someone check it front of them,” New Mexico First Judicial District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies told CNN shortly after announcing her intention of charging actor Alec Baldwin and film armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed with involuntary manslaughter.
Good.
Outsourcing a task doesn’t mean you’ve outsourced responsibility.
That said, our legal system caters to the rich. Don’t expect accountability.
I would bet the armourer gets the full brunt of whatever happens.
Many other actors have said they “always check their guns or have someone check it front of them,” New Mexico First Judicial District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies told CNN shortly after announcing her intention of charging actor Alec Baldwin and film armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed with involuntary manslaughter.
Good.
Outsourcing a task doesn’t mean you’ve outsourced responsibility.
That said, our legal system caters to the rich. Don’t expect accountability.
I really don't agree with your formulation here. The division of labor can and should apply to taking precautions as well.
If I'm a surgeon and I pick up a scalpel off the tray that my properly licensed apparently sober and sane OR assistant is holding for me and start doing my surgery, it's not my responsibility to make sure the scalpel was sterilized. (At least in criminal law.)
Speaking generally rather than with reference to this case.
Many other actors have said they “always check their guns or have someone check it front of them,” New Mexico First Judicial District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies told CNN shortly after announcing her intention of charging actor Alec Baldwin and film armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed with involuntary manslaughter.
Good.
Outsourcing a task doesn’t mean you’ve outsourced responsibility.
That said, our legal system caters to the rich. Don’t expect accountability.
I really don't agree with your formulation here. The division of labor can and should apply to taking precautions as well.
If I'm a surgeon and I pick up a scalpel off the tray that my properly licensed apparently sober and sane OR assistant is holding for me and start doing my surgery, it's not my responsibility to make sure the scalpel was sterilized. (At least in criminal law.)
Speaking generally rather than with reference to this case.
Sure.
To take it a step further, I wouldn’t hold you (the surgeon) accountable for the quality of the steel in the scalpel that might be more controlled by the foundry worker, metallurgist, or machinist, etc, in the event the scalpel was a dud and the tip broke off in your patient’s spine.
But if you (the surgeon) operated on someone with a dirty scalpel littered with zombie brains and then spread the zombie epidemic bc you grossly failed to do a few seconds of due diligence, that’s on you.
For every gun user, treating a gun as loaded until you personally confirm it is not loaded is basic due diligence.
But everywhere else: not so much. Which is a good thing. This guy is hoot. His legal breakdown is a joke. His drunk driving comparison not even remotely in the ball park of the Rust shooting. And the statement above encapsulates Mr. Branca's 'reasoning'. Come on, man. 