Trap Bar: Yea Or Nay?

[cgeorg]

trap bar ... offers a neutral grip which puts the biceps tendons at lower risk.

That's a good point. Do you use a hook grip?

n=0 as I've never pulled a trap bar, but I'd think you'd have the same benefit as mixed grip in that the bar isn't trying to roll out of your hands, so you would be able to take a standard overhand grip. I suppose if you were unable to hold a weight mixed grip you also might not be able to hold it neutral, but I don't think I've ever heard of someone having a mixed grip be a limiting factor.

[mgil]

trap bar ... offers a neutral grip which puts the biceps tendons at lower risk.

That's a good point. Do you use a hook grip?

lol no as my pancake palms and sausage fingers (catcher’s mitt for a hand) preclude hook grip on a regular 29mm barbell. The grips on my trap bar are something wild like 33.5mm. In the one post you can probably see me using dowel straps.

@Michiganian, the one weird thing that bothers me about high handles, besides the shorter ROM, is the notion that every manufacturer has a different idea of what that height should be.

[mgil]

trap bar ... offers a neutral grip which puts the biceps tendons at lower risk.

That's a good point. Do you use a hook grip?

n=0 as I've never pulled a trap bar, but I'd think you'd have the same benefit as mixed grip in that the bar isn't trying to roll out of your hands, so you would be able to take a standard overhand grip. I suppose if you were unable to hold a weight mixed grip you also might not be able to hold it neutral, but I don't think I've ever heard of someone having a mixed grip be a limiting factor.

Agreed. Also, if it’s not too heavy I often don’t even wrap the thumb under.

[Hanley]

Doing three sets of five lifts. Here's the last time I did DLs (185 lbs.): https://www.linxnet.com/misc/Videos/Fit ... 231020.mp4 Note mid-to-lower back is just beginning to round during the eccentric.

I've sciatica on the right side. I don't need to aggravate it nor induce additional lower-back injury in working to get more fit. So I'm being cautious.

FWIW, I think your back extension is perfectly fine. Excellent, really.

I DO think you're
1) overextending a little bit at the very top. You get the bar up just fine and are in excellent hip/knee/back extension, but then you rock backwards a tiny bit (I'm guessing you're actually overextending your lumbar spine a bit during that rock-back). No need to rock backward.

2) getting into a pretty nasty position with regard to degree of hip vs knee flexion on your eccentric. It looks like RDL positioning, but with DL weight. Once the bar crosses your knees while you're lowering it, just bend them a bit more (I've only ever tweaked my back on the eccentric portion of a DL).

This is the position I don't love:



###

I love trap bars. Like that dude from Boston mentioned above, I use them for volume work and a barbell for heavier stuff. For me barbells and trap bars transfer back and forth in terms of strength really well (iow...I'm confident I could hit a barbell PR training on nothing but a trap bar).

[Michiganian]

FWIW, I think your back extension is perfectly fine. Excellent, really.

Thanks! Maybe I'm being too critical/cautious.

I DO think you're
1) overextending a little bit at the very top. You get the bar up just fine and are in excellent hip/knee/back extension, but then you rock backwards a tiny bit (I'm guessing you're actually overextending your lumbar spine a bit during that rock-back). No need to rock backward.

I suspect that's a misguided attempt to make sure I'm getting my shoulders back all the way for lockout. I'll keep an eye on that.

2) getting into a pretty nasty position with regard to degree of hip vs knee flexion on your eccentric. It looks like RDL positioning, ...

That's probably just what it is, since I do RDLs, too.

My saving grace at that point (and that doesn't mean I won't try to correct that) is there's little load on me at that point as I'm mainly just guiding the bar down--resisting it very little.

I love trap bars.

Thanks. I'm kinda leaning toward grabbing one, just for the variety, if nothing else.

Thanks very much for the detailed DL critique!

[asdf]

I've never pulled a trap bar, but I'd think you'd have the same benefit as mixed grip in that the bar isn't trying to roll out of your hands

Why wouldn't a trap bar try to roll out of your hands?

With a mixed grip on a straight bar, when the bar starts to roll out of the pronated hand, it rolls into the supinated hand (and vice versa). The same is true with hook grips, just within each hand: when the bar is rolling out of the fingers, it's rolling into the thumb.

I'm not understanding how there's a similar mechanism with dual neutral grip on a trap bar. If the bar starts rolling out of my fingers on my left hand, how is the bar rolling into my thumb on the left hand or into my right hand?

[James]

A trap bar handle can't roll.

[mgil]

A trap bar handle can't roll.

Pretty much.

The bar could rotate about that axis, but the other handle is parallel and something like 25” away. So there’s a moment arm connected to the other hand that has a good bit of leverage that is resisting roll in the opposite direction.

Basically, it’s difficult for the bar to roll out of either hand as it’s countered directly and with leverage.

[asdf]

A trap bar handle can't roll.

The bar could rotate about that axis, but the other handle is parallel and something like 25” away. So there’s a moment arm connected to the other hand that has a good bit of leverage that is resisting roll in the opposite direction.

Basically, it’s difficult for the bar to roll out of either hand as it’s countered directly and with leverage.

Thanks for the explanation. Got it.

Bar rotation aside, wouldn't a hook grip still be beneficial, in the same way that straps are?

[mgil]

A trap bar handle can't roll.

The bar could rotate about that axis, but the other handle is parallel and something like 25” away. So there’s a moment arm connected to the other hand that has a good bit of leverage that is resisting roll in the opposite direction.

Basically, it’s difficult for the bar to roll out of either hand as it’s countered directly and with leverage.

Thanks for the explanation. Got it.

Bar rotation aside, wouldn't a hook grip still be beneficial, in the same way that straps are?

The dowel straps only require the finger to hold the dowel in place and transfer most of the grip required to the wrist. Hook grip would still be mashing the thumb into the bar, which sucks. Plus, as I mentioned above, the grips are often a few mm larger in diameter.

[asdf]

Bar rotation aside, wouldn't a hook grip still be beneficial, in the same way that straps are?

The dowel straps only require the finger to hold the dowel in place and transfer most of the grip required to the wrist. Hook grip would still be mashing the thumb into the bar, which sucks. Plus, as I mentioned above, the grips are often a few mm larger in diameter.

I'm not arguing for hook grip over straps. Just wondering about the hook grip itself. Specifically, whether it provides any advantage in contexts where it’s not stopping bar rotation. I understand that it’s problematic on trap bars with thicker grips. On smaller diameter trap bars (like Bells of Steel), I imagine the thumb could serve the same purpose as the dowel in your grips, giving the fingers something to latch on to.

[mgil]

@asdf, likely, but why make your thumbs hurt?

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

A few thoughts, probably similar to what was said before:
- I think you're way too scared of injury, and also I'm not sure the belief that "When your spine isn't neutral the chance of spinal injury goes way up, and such injuries often never heal." is correct. I think that the most critical factor to "prevent" injury, to the extent that you can prevent them (I'm not even sure this is possible), is smart programming (load management, fatigue management etc).
- I think that deadlifts are great for hypertrophy, for some people, in the right context. It has become fashionable in some fitness spaces to say that big barbell compounds are not "optimal" for hypertrophy, but I'm not sure it's true. If your body is well suited to these exercises and you like doing those exercises and you do them with enough volume and eat I can guarantee you'll get bigger. My back development came almost only from deadlift and chins. Also, deadlifts make me incredibly sore (if you believe that soreness and hypertrophy are correlated, which I do to some extent). Now there's no need to get dogmatic either, you can get bigger with only dumbbells, with only machines, etc. Hypertrophy is a low hanging fruit.
- If you train for "strength" (not powerlifting) then you can pretty much do whatever you want because strength is specific. If you do deadlifts / trap bar deadlifts / lunges / whatever you'll get stronger at deadlifts / trap bar deadlifts / lunges / whatever respectively. And if you train for "health" then it matters even less, you literally just have to get to the gym a few times a week, lift some weights and do some LISS and eat protein and not be a fatso.
- If I had your homegym and some money to spend, I'd actually buy more plates and an SSB and dumbbells, but I'm not sure this answers your question
- I don't understand why one would use hook grip if one is not a powerlifter. Straps exist, use them, unless you're deadlifting for forearm gains.

[James]

I'm not arguing for hook grip over straps. Just wondering about the hook grip itself. Specifically, whether it provides any advantage in contexts where it’s not stopping bar rotation. I understand that it’s problematic on trap bars with thicker grips. On smaller diameter trap bars (like Bells of Steel), I imagine the thumb could serve the same purpose as the dowel in your grips, giving the fingers something to latch on to.

The only thing a dowl in straps does is help put the straps on the bar. Straps transfer the load to your wrist. Using hook grip on a trap bar is pointless because all of the weight is still in your fingers and the neutral grip naturally keeps the handles from rotating.

[Michiganian]

@CheekiBreekiFitness, thanks for the detailed answer.

I'm not aiming for hypertrophy so much as I am strength, mobility, bone density, and fat loss. (Of course: With increased strength comes hypertrophy.) Plus I just plain enjoy working out

I'm a big believer in compound lifts. I enjoy the challenge and feel compound lifts more-closely mimic the demands real life places upon one. With a trap bar I'm mainly looking to make safer and more enjoyable a compound lift I enjoy doing.

I considered an SSB a few months back. I do squats and front squats. I'm much more comfortable doing squats with a BB than I am DLs. Don't need more plates quite yet and I haven't even maxed-out the DBs I have already.

I've finally come to a decision: I plan to order a REP Open Trap Bar today. After watching dozens of videos, reading dozens of articles, and the comments in this thread I see all upsides and no downsides.

Thanks, everybody, for your comments! Very much appreciated

[asdf]

likely, but why make your thumbs hurt?

I'm just asking a theoretical question about the hook grip. Not advocating that anyone use it outside of Olympic lifting. Let's go back to a barbell deadlift. The question is, does a hook grip improve the grip only by stopping bar rotation, or does it improve the grip in some other way. Greg Everett, for instance, explains a couple of ways in which the hook grip provides a better grip vs. simple overhand, before stating, "The hook grip also creates a system that balances the tendency of the bar to roll."

[asdf]

The only thing a dowl in straps does is help put the straps on the bar.

Not sure about that. I've seen videos on YouTube where people explain that the purpose of the dowl is to provide a purchase for the fingers. Also, many gymnasts use grips with dowels, even though they're not strapping to the bar. Even when they use grips without dowels, many prefer excess material in the palm that folds over, creating a dowel-like ridge.

Here's how Greg Everett explains it regarding the hook grip:

"The thumb also creates a ridge for the fingers to dig into. Rather than just wrapping around the bar, which is smooth and has no real points of purchase, and squeezing, the fingers now have a protrusion to hook onto—not only does this make gripping something easier, but because it’s your own thumb, it’s actually naturally reinforcing your grip security."

https://www.catalystathletics.com/artic ... Correctly/

[Hardartery]

I'm not arguing for hook grip over straps. Just wondering about the hook grip itself. Specifically, whether it provides any advantage in contexts where it’s not stopping bar rotation. I understand that it’s problematic on trap bars with thicker grips. On smaller diameter trap bars (like Bells of Steel), I imagine the thumb could serve the same purpose as the dowel in your grips, giving the fingers something to latch on to.

The only thing a dowl in straps does is help put the straps on the bar. Straps transfer the load to your wrist. Using hook grip on a trap bar is pointless because all of the weight is still in your fingers and the neutral grip naturally keeps the handles from rotating.

If the straps transfer the weight to your wrists you are wearing them wrong. The point of the straps is simply to remove the limit of grip strength which mostly comes down to the ability to keep the fingers curled up into a fist. I have never seen a trap bar with rotating handles, so there is no rotation to prevent. period. The neutral grip allows you to keep the weight back further than you can with a bar to the front so you are actually transferring the load to be in a direct line through the ankles, which is an anatomically stronger position, which makes a big difference even though it's a small change of bar path. Starting with a slightly more upright position and a significantly stronger bar path is arguably safer for lower back concerns and absolutely permits a lot more weight to be moved. If your weakness is better addressed through that bar path you will progress nicely in both, if it only plays to your strengths the weak points will simply lag more.

[James]

If the straps transfer the weight to your wrists you are wearing them wrong. The point of the straps is simply to remove the limit of grip strength which mostly comes down to the ability to keep the fingers curled up into a fist. I have never seen a trap bar with rotating handles, so there is no rotation to prevent. period.

If you try to pick up a trap bar with one hand what will that handle do? Rotate. The hand on the other side stops this. How do the straps remove the limit of your fingers to curl? Moving the weight to your wrists. That is literally the only way for them to do that.

Not sure about that. I've seen videos on YouTube where people explain that the purpose of the dowl is to provide a purchase for the fingers. Also, many gymnasts use grips with dowels, even though they're not strapping to the bar. Even when they use grips without dowels, many prefer excess material in the palm that folds over, creating a dowel-like ridge.

Here's how Greg Everett explains it regarding the hook grip:

"The thumb also creates a ridge for the fingers to dig into. Rather than just wrapping around the bar, which is smooth and has no real points of purchase, and squeezing, the fingers now have a protrusion to hook onto—not only does this make gripping something easier, but because it’s your own thumb, it’s actually naturally reinforcing your grip security."

https://www.catalystathletics.com/artic ... Correctly/

Every time I have ever seen someone use versa or cobra grips the dowel wraps around the bar to be in the palm. Gymnastics could be different with thicker beams but that still puts most the force on the wrists. I could see the dowel making the strap more secure but that doesn't mean it helps your grip directly.

Evertt sounds like he's trying to come up with a justification for sore thumbs.

[asdf]

I have never seen a trap bar with rotating handles

I haven't either. But apparently the REP Open Trap Bar (mentioned above) has a variety of interchangeable handles, including rotating.