Deadlift start position

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csaba2208
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Deadlift start position

#1

Post by csaba2208 » Sun Jun 16, 2024 8:10 am


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mgil
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Re: Deadlift start position

#2

Post by mgil » Sun Jun 16, 2024 8:36 am

csaba2208 wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 8:10 am https://x.com/sam_gzstrength/status/1802350616033038369
Incorrect because Rip said so...
The cognitive dissonance is strong with him.

When I started doing more deadlifting, I found that I liked deadlifting more than squats.

Deadlifting is hard for SS peeps because the programming sucks and they end up weak at the DL because you f insufficient volume.

The twisted logic is transparent.

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DanCR
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Re: Deadlift start position

#3

Post by DanCR » Sun Jun 16, 2024 10:35 am

Disclaimer that my DL was for shit.

I don’t think that Rip is wrong about the starting position.

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Re: Deadlift start position

#4

Post by csaba2208 » Sun Jun 16, 2024 11:32 am

@DanCR Not saying he's wrong, but starting with the bar a little forward isn't inherently wrong either, seeing as it will auto correct when the weight is heavy enough

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DanCR
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Re: Deadlift start position

#5

Post by DanCR » Sun Jun 16, 2024 12:42 pm

csaba2208 wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 11:32 am @DanCR Not saying he's wrong, but starting with the bar a little forward isn't inherently wrong either, seeing as it will auto correct when the weight is heavy enough
I mean yeah, bar a bit forward isn’t gonna be a trip to snap city and yeah, it’ll correct itself, so not a huge deal
In training but not so swell for a limit pull. I was referring more to the position of the hips, though. My experience with high hips - and also with trying lower hips - was exactly as he says, for exactly the reasons that he gives.

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Hanley
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Re: Deadlift start position

#6

Post by Hanley » Sun Jun 16, 2024 12:47 pm

csaba2208 wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 11:32 am @DanCR Not saying he's wrong, but starting with the bar a little forward isn't inherently wrong either, seeing as it will auto correct when the weight is heavy enough
yep


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Re: Deadlift start position

#7

Post by csaba2208 » Sun Jun 16, 2024 12:53 pm

@DanCR Eddie Hall managed a not too shabby 500kg with the low hip start

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Hanley
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Re: Deadlift start position

#8

Post by Hanley » Sun Jun 16, 2024 12:59 pm

csaba2208 wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 12:53 pmlow hip start
Someone (preferably a low-tier mechanical engineer with a sub-500 pull) really needs to tell him that the bar roll and low-hips don't help.

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Re: Deadlift start position

#9

Post by DanCR » Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:01 pm

csaba2208 wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 12:53 pm @DanCR Eddie Hall managed a not too shabby 500kg with the low hip start
If I were Eddie Hall, I’d be far less concerned with what’s allegedly optimal. Alas, I continue to wake up as me.

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Re: Deadlift start position

#10

Post by csaba2208 » Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:02 pm

No joke, but I can actually pull more using a low hip start vs Rip's setup. Anyone else have this happen?

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Re: Deadlift start position

#11

Post by csaba2208 » Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:05 pm

While strong for sure, surprising to see Eddie's son do this, especially how we're led to believe uber elite pulling strength supposedly confers some godlike coaching ability onto you

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Re: Deadlift start position

#12

Post by Hardartery » Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:09 pm

csaba2208 wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:02 pm No joke, but I can actually pull more using a low hip start vs Rip's setup. Anyone else have this happen?
Most people will, unless they have no leg strength. It takes practice, but it is a more powerful start position than the crap form stiff leg most guys seem to be going for. Also, if you wear a suit and don't pull the hips down you are a moron and the bar roll is all about necessity in a DL suit. It becomes painfully obvious when you put one on and try to lift.

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Re: Deadlift start position

#13

Post by csaba2208 » Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:13 pm

@Hardartery Doesn't make sense to me why raw lifters (may not be the case for everyone) would be able to lift more with a low hip start. I mean it shouldn't make a difference since the hips will eventually rise before the bar leaves the floor as the bar comes back over midfoot (for a limit pull) so we're not getting any additional quad involvement, or activation we would using for example the SS method.

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Hanley
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Re: Deadlift start position

#14

Post by Hanley » Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:17 pm

csaba2208 wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:02 pm No joke, but I can actually pull more using a low hip start vs Rip's setup. Anyone else have this happen?
I do as well.

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Re: Deadlift start position

#15

Post by DanCR » Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:42 pm

csaba2208 wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:13 pm @Hardartery Doesn't make sense to me why raw lifters (may not be the case for everyone) would be able to lift more with a low hip start. I mean it shouldn't make a difference since the hips will eventually rise before the bar leaves the floor as the bar comes back over midfoot (for a limit pull) so we're not getting any additional quad involvement, or activation we would using for example the SS method.
This was precisely my experience with trying to pull with lower hips (and looks to me to be what’s happening with 903 dude above). Perhaps someone who is stronger that way can further explain what they’re doing to avoid this, or alternatively why they prefer beginning lower despite this result.

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Re: Deadlift start position

#16

Post by Hanley » Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:51 pm

DanCR wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:42 pmwhy they prefer beginning lower despite this result.
I can lift more weight.

I have never once in my life measured my muscle activation or derived anything like a convincing biomechanical model that predicts potential muscle activation from a technique.

So, I try some shit and defer to load on the bar rather than some almost-certainly flawed mental model.
Last edited by Hanley on Sun Jun 16, 2024 2:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Deadlift start position

#17

Post by csaba2208 » Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:55 pm

@Hanley why do you think you can lift more from a low hip start? Perhaps that dynamic "uncoiling" allows for a stronger quad push?

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Re: Deadlift start position

#18

Post by DanCR » Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:58 pm

csaba2208 wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:55 pm @Hanley why do you think you can lift more from a low hip start? Perhaps that dynamic "uncoiling" allows for a stronger quad push?
This is what I was going for. Hanley, do you, (1) not experience what csaba2208 describes above; or (2) experience it and yet still are stronger, and if so why do you suppose that is?

ETA: I fully agree with your (Hanley) edited thoughts above. In this case, however, my experience always did match the alleged model.

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Re: Deadlift start position

#19

Post by Hanley » Sun Jun 16, 2024 2:01 pm

csaba2208 wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:55 pm Hanley why do you think you can lift more from a low hip start? Perhaps that dynamic "uncoiling" allows for a stronger quad push?
I don't know.

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Re: Deadlift start position

#20

Post by mgil » Sun Jun 16, 2024 5:41 pm

Hanley wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 12:59 pm
csaba2208 wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 12:53 pmlow hip start
Someone (preferably a low-tier mechanical engineer with a sub-500 pull) really needs to tell him that the bar roll and low-hips don't help.
There’s a hack civil engineer over on the SS forums that can fill that bill.

Anywho, I think the dynamic start is mainly mental focus with a possible amount of momentum. Most of my pulls start with the hips lower than needed. If I was doing conventional, I’d be rolling them in as well.

Mentally, as I’m going through this, I’m setting up a shitload of tension in all of the right places. And for whatever reason, it’s easier for me to build that tension while in motion. It’s much harder to do while being static.

Editing:

For trap bar pulls, these mechanics change. I set up with the hips higher than needed and drive my knees forward into tension and then pull. It’s almost completely backwards from the barbell. When I do sumos as an accessory, you can still see the remnants of my barbell technique.

My deadlift certainly isn’t the strongest even here but I’m pulling decent volume and not getting hurt.

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