Cinema Thread, because movies is a stupid word

[hector]

This is niche, possible nobody else watched it, but if you liked the first season of Baki Hanma, the second season is even better. Involves dinosaurs and a caveman.

[lheugh]

This is niche, possible nobody else watched it, but if you liked the first season of Baki Hanma, the second season is even better. Involves dinosaurs and a caveman.

I'm glad they've been steadily adapting the manga arcs quite faithfully. There's another season after the Pickle saga that's been adapted (which I'm currently going through) and it's been a great time as well.

[lheugh]

Watched a movie called 'Nice Guys' on Netflix. Buddy detective movie set in 70s LA. By the writer of Lethal Weapon 1 and it kind of shows.

Perfect streaming fare. Very funny and well acted but kind of tonally inconsistent and nonsensically plotted.

I have a soft spot for that movie. I thought it a shame we haven't had a sequel. Gosling and Crowe mesh surprisingly well.

[TimK]

Watched a movie called 'Nice Guys' on Netflix. Buddy detective movie set in 70s LA. By the writer of Lethal Weapon 1 and it kind of shows.

Perfect streaming fare. Very funny and well acted but kind of tonally inconsistent and nonsensically plotted.

Shane Black (the writer) also wrote Last Action Hero which IMO is a criminally underrated Arnold movie. Also wrote Kiss Kiss Bang Bang which you’d probably enjoy as it’s similar in tone to The Nice Guys.

[mouse]

We finally watched the Mario movie... it wasn't completely awful...

I'm glad I was wrong about the trailer and they didn't Marvel girl boss Peach to the extent I thought they would...

[hector]

Saw Season 2 of Picard.
The inner/psychological/flashback/trauma stuff wore on, but series was generally good.
If you get annoyed by woke stuff then you might not like it, but it wasn’t terrible.

[conssam]

We have a Gaming Thread, a Cop Thread, some politics Thread, Boots, Pens, etc.

But what about cinema films? Moving pictures?

Just watched Wonder yesterday and 1.37 liters of tears rolled down my beautiful bronze facial cutis, moistening my fuzzy wiry black wispy beard, and invoking some sardonic mockery from my wife (she calls me "melted butter"). If you watch that film and can't relate with any of it, lock yourself in a cell because you are not a human being.

I was wondering if it's worth watching or not. However, after your review, I think it's definitely worth giving a chance.

[5hout]

Ok, I haven't gone and seen Dune 2 (or Dune 1 for that matter), but since it's all over the web here goes:

PAUL IS THE HERO YOU STUPID DICKS, he just fails to go far enough. https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/sc ... or-muaddib

IDK, the books have been out for a while, but spoiler tagging b/c maybe someone is partway through the books inspired by the movies.

SpoilerShow

There are, I know this is crazy, 7 canonical Dune books, plus some other stuff that is canon adjacent if you can push through bad writing. The 7 canonical Dune books however (without the adjacent materials) lay this out in somewhat excruciating detail: Paul is granted a vision of the future which includes the annihilation of mankind, but instead of taking the necessary steps to prevent this he takes a half measure and leaves the real work of to his son (the nascent god-emperor). Look, it's sad (or not, given how the post-Chapterhouse stuff concludes) that Herbert didn't finish the series, but the point is that without the breaking of prescience and the spreading of humanity to untrackable worlds, humanity is doomed.

IMO, I think had Frank Herbert lived long enough to finish the series he was actually signaling that the machines were returning as ultra-face dancers/bene tleilax, and that it wasn't going to be some apocalyptical battle vs machines but instead the realization that you couldn't know who was a machine and that they might already be in control.

This is beside the point though, Paul hears the hero's call, refuses and dooms humanity (unless his son does the unthinkable). FdB might think this is a paen against messianism, but IMO that only works if you stop reading Dune at Children of Dune (since the remainder of the series explores the necessary consequences of the post-messiah world).

[aurelius]

Ok, I haven't gone and seen Dune 2 (or Dune 1 for that matter), but since it's all over the web here goes:

PAUL IS THE HERO YOU STUPID DICKS, he just fails to go far enough.

Herbert himself stated Paul is not a hero. And wrote Paul's character as a warning against charismatic leaders. Herbert publicly expressed regret that he didn't go far enough in Dune to show that Paul's 'hero' journey was anything but. Dune was Herbert's masterpiece. Messiah was written in direct response to Herbert's own perceived failings of his masterpiece.

The Paul in Dune does not see 10,000+ years into the future. Paul's ability to 'see into the future' in Dune was less mystical but grounded in hyper observation (Bene Gesserit training), having the male and female genetic memories (Kwisatz Haderach) of his entire line (going back to Earth), and using his mentat training to take all this data to make hyper accurate probabilistic models where he could 'predict' the future. Paul couldn't see past the nexus event he created when he used the Fremen to stop spice production.

Prescience was not unique to Paul as the Bene Gesserit had limited prescience. The Spacing Guild also had prescience but that is less discussed/exlpained in Dune. The reason the Spacing Guild (the most powerful faction in Dune before Paul) never took control of spice production is it always ended in a nexus event they could not 'see' past (I think it may mention that in Messiah). As a result the Guild chose to passively, behind the scenes pull the strings, and always funneled events towards stability (which led to stagnation, the hyper vulnerable socio-political structure, and the 'need' for the Golden Path). Paul didn't care. He gambled.

Paul isn't a villain. But he isn't a hero. He isn't trying to save humanity. He takes revenge on the Harkonnens and Emperor and ultimately fulfill his father's dream of subjugating the Fremen to empower House Atreides. I think at some point in the book Paul's like "Fuck it. Let the Fremen kill and fuck across the known universe. The genetic pool wants it anyway." Not really screaming hero there. Not to mention he tries to commit suicide (that is what that little fight with Feyd Rautha at the end is about) after his gambit worked because he doesn't want to live with the consequences of his actions.

Everything in Dune has a pseudo-scientific explanation. That is one of the things I thought that was so cool about it. Humans trained to be super computers, genetic memory, and so forth. IMO anything past Messiah (even Messiah a little bit) gets to be sci-fi fantasy hock (sandworm man god?) and really loses any cohesion to the original Dune's more 'grounded' universe. God-Emperor of Dune is what...10,000 years after Messiah? I think Dune stands alone and should be judged on its contents.

I may or may not have spent too much time reading books and too little time trying to get laid as a teen.

[5hout]

Paul isn't a villain. But he isn't a hero. He isn't trying to save humanity. He takes revenge on the Harkonnens and Emperor and ultimately fulfill his father's dream of subjugating the Fremen to empower House Atreides. I think at some point in the book Paul's like "Fuck it. Let the Fremen kill and fuck across the known universe. The genetic pool wants it anyway." Not really screaming hero there. Not to mention he tries to commit suicide (that is what that little fight with Feyd Rautha at the end is about) after his gambit worked because he doesn't want to live with the consequences of his actions.

I think Dune stands alone and should be judged on its contents.

I agree with your comments on Dune, and I agree that's what Herbert wanted when he wrote the 1st book. But, I fundamentally disagree when it comes to 3 through 7. When we meet Paul in book 3 it is revealed that, post Fremen Jihad, he now sees the path that Leto must walk and doesn't have the will or desire to, and leaves it for Leto.

Books 1 and 2 are an exploration of the dangers of charismatic leaders. Book 3 is a mess. Books 4 is an exploration of how far do you go to do what is right. Books 5/6 (herp a derp bad counting in my other post) are journeys in the consequences of doing the right thing regardless of the cost.

[aurelius]

I agree with your comments on Dune, and I agree that's what Herbert wanted when he wrote the 1st book. But, I fundamentally disagree when it comes to 3 through 7. When we meet Paul in book 3 it is revealed that, post Fremen Jihad, he now sees the path that Leto must walk and doesn't have the will or desire to, and leaves it for Leto.

Books 1 and 2 are an exploration of the dangers of charismatic leaders. Book 3 is a mess. Books 4 is an exploration of how far do you go to do what is right. Books 5/6 (herp a derp bad counting in my other post) are journeys in the consequences of doing the right thing regardless of the cost.

I think we are on the same page. I agree. My point is Herbert retconned many things past Messiah. Kind of like Star Wars (ugh). Books 3-6 should have no bearing on Villeneuve's Dune. Messiah is the end of Paul's journey (with his epilogue in Children of Dune). Villeneuve might be setting up a better version for the ending to Paul's anti-hero story than what Herbert did in Messiah.

Villenueve's Dune consistency by %:
Part 1 ~90%
Part 2 ~70%
Part 3 <50% (following through the changes he made in Part 2)

[GlasgowJock]

Paul isn't a villain. But he isn't a hero. He isn't trying to save humanity. He takes revenge on the Harkonnens and Emperor and ultimately fulfill his father's dream of subjugating the Fremen to empower House Atreides. I think at some point in the book Paul's like "Fuck it. Let the Fremen kill and fuck across the known universe. The genetic pool wants it anyway." Not really screaming hero there.

100% with this.

Saw it this afternoon and walked away thinking 'surely no one thinks Paul's a good guy/ hero?' though summed up nicely above.

Chani saw through his BS.

[hector]

Saw Civil War. If you suspend disbelief it's a fun movie.

[mbasic]

I am enjoying Shogun.

[ChrisMcCarthy1979]

Poor things was a visual and technical delight but also deeply flawed and really quite disturbing.

[mouse]

Saw Civil War. If you suspend disbelief it's a fun movie.

I wanted to see this because people were afraid it would be a 'dangerous' movie but after what I've heard/read I remembered that people are too chickenshit to make 'dangerous' movies...

[hector]

Saw Civil War. If you suspend disbelief it's a fun movie.

I wanted to see this because people were afraid it would be a 'dangerous' movie but after what I've heard/read I remembered that people are too chickenshit to make 'dangerous' movies...

The movie is not dangerous at all. Leans left politically, the way you would expect. No challenging ideas.

Still, enjoyable.

I heard it actually was more controversial, but they edited it down to appeal to a broader audience. Idk.

[mouse]

I heard it actually was more controversial, but they edited it down to appeal to a broader audience. Idk.

Lame