Cinema Thread, because movies is a stupid word

[BenM]

Damn, I downloaded a copy of the Dark Tower the other day - really enjoyed the books and have a bit of a man crush on Idris Elba. Still might give it a go anyway.

Yeh - he so dreamy!

Dark and smouldering. Loved him in Luther and The Wire. Still don’t entirely agree with him being cast as Heimdall - like a female Bond.

[Shane]

Damn, I downloaded a copy of the Dark Tower the other day - really enjoyed the books and have a bit of a man crush on Idris Elba. Still might give it a go anyway.

Yeh - he so dreamy!

Dark and smouldering. Loved him in Luther and The Wire. Still don’t entirely agree with him being cast as Heimdall - like a female Bond.

I couldn't give even a bit of the first of two fucks about racial casting issues of that type. I note that there's a troubling dynamic at the moment among concerns about 'whitewashing', 'under-representation' and 'over-diversity'. The first two are historic problems in the entertainment industry that some are making attempts to address, and the latter is often conflated with the first two as part of knee-jerk #whataboutism. Not casting that accusation your way, to be clear.

I need look no further than my daughter and her rainbow of close friends to feed my hope that at some point we'll look back at this and earlier eras and wonder what the fuck all that was about.

[PatrickDB]

This thread needs more use of the spoiler feature.

I saw The Last Jedi yesterday and have mixed feelings about it. Some stuff that was pretty good but lots of bullshit IMO...

SpoilerShow

I mostly liked everything with Luke, Rey, and Kylo Ren. I like that they are not just following the formula of the first trilogy with Kylo turning on his puppet master and becoming "good" in the third movie. He might still turn but having him kill Snoke and remain on the dark side is at least something different.

Everything with Finn and Poe and Admiral Purple Hair was beyond stupid and pointless though. Why waste half the movie having two of your heroes continually fuck things up and accomplish nothing of consequence? Also it maked no sense whatsoever that Purple Hair would continually refuse to explain her plan to her subordinates even to the point of inciting a mutiny, just as some kind of power trip. And Rose crashing into Finn just when he was about to actually do something productive and save everyone, just to spout some cliched bullshit and give him a kiss, was also dumb.

Also Mary Poppins Leia wtf? Weird that they kept her character alive after Carrie Fisher died.

I also felt like a lot of the humor was misplaced and detracted from the impact of dramatic moments. Most egregious examples were after the barrage against Luke someone says "do you think you got him?" and then when the smoke clears he dusts off his shoulder... didn't work for me.

Saw The Last Jedi yesterday. I agree with this analysis.

[BenM]

Damn, I downloaded a copy of the Dark Tower the other day - really enjoyed the books and have a bit of a man crush on Idris Elba. Still might give it a go anyway.

Yeh - he so dreamy!

Dark and smouldering. Loved him in Luther and The Wire. Still don’t entirely agree with him being cast as Heimdall - like a female Bond.

I couldn't give even a bit of the first of two fucks about racial casting issues of that type. I note that there's a troubling dynamic at the moment among concerns about 'whitewashing', 'under-representation' and 'over-diversity'. The first two are historic problems in the entertainment industry that some are making attempts to address, and the latter is often conflated with the first two as part of knee-jerk #whataboutism. Not casting that accusation your way, to be clear.

I need look no further than my daughter and her rainbow of close friends to feed my hope that at some point we'll look back at this and earlier eras and wonder what the fuck all that was about.

I don't lose any sleep over it. I just think there's nothing inherently wrong with saying 'this character is a Nordic viking, therefore it's not entirely appropriate to cast a black actor in the role'. I do get the fact that as a fantasy movie we are expected to suspend our bullshit detectors and let loose our imagination to enjoy it, so of course there's no reason a purple skinned midget couldn't do a bang up job in the role either. If they're casting the guy because he's the best candidate out of all comers, regardless of age/gender/ethnicity I genuinely have no issue with it either but I strongly suspect they're not.

For the record - no problem with a female Doctor. Or a black one either.

[hsilman]

I don't lose any sleep over it. I just think there's nothing inherently wrong with saying 'this character is a Nordic viking, therefore it's not entirely appropriate to cast a black actor in the role'. I do get the fact that as a fantasy movie we are expected to suspend our bullshit detectors and let loose our imagination to enjoy it, so of course there's no reason a purple skinned midget couldn't do a bang up job in the role either. If they're casting the guy because he's the best candidate out of all comers, regardless of age/gender/ethnicity I genuinely have no issue with it either but I strongly suspect they're not.

For the record - no problem with a female Doctor. Or a black one either.

at no point in the history of mankind have things like this been some sort of magical "pure meritocracy". Not only would it be literally impossible to cast the "best candidate out of all comers", even the idea that such a thing exists seems pretty unlikely. There are tons of considerations for who gets what role that have little to do with "acting ability". It seems strange to draw the line in the sand on this issue when talking about why certain actors get offered certain roles.

Like most things(all things? haven't really thought about it that much) there is a baseline level of competence that is expected/required, and beyond that, anything goes as to why they offer roles to whoever. They don't look for "the best possible acting skill" but rather the minimum level.

[Murelli]

I agree with @BenM: using an australian, a welsh, a japanese, a northern irish, a few americans and two londoners, freaking londoners, to portray Norse Vikings in a movie is completely inappropriate. Stelan Skarsgard and his entire prole, along with Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and Daniel Gildenlöw (<3) should have been the only players allowed in Thor.

PS: I facepalmed so hard reading this discussion on Idris Elba on Thor that people are now thinking my name is Mr. Wilson.

[perman]

I agree with @BenM: using an australian, a welsh, a japanese, a northern irish, a few americans and two londoners, freaking londoners, to portray Norse Vikings in a movie is completely inappropriate. Stelan Skarsgard and his entire prole, along with Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and Daniel Gildenlöw (<3) should have been the only players allowed in Thor.

PS: I facepalmed so hard reading this discussion on Idris Elba on Thor that people are now thinking my name is Mr. Wilson.

But why though? So they can speak English with a Scandinavian accent so it "seems" authentic?

If they truly wanted to make Vikings be somewhat authentic, they would have to cast only Icelandic actors who spoke Icelandic in the movie, since that language is the least changed from Old Norse.

That would probably be a huge hassle and make them no extra money, in fact they'd probably lose money since I don't know of any famous Icelandic actors save the Mountain dude, who's not really an actor.

[Murelli]

I agree with @BenM: using an australian, a welsh, a japanese, a northern irish, a few americans and two londoners, freaking londoners, to portray Norse Vikings in a movie is completely inappropriate. Stelan Skarsgard and his entire prole, along with Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and Daniel Gildenlöw (<3) should have been the only players allowed in Thor.

PS: I facepalmed so hard reading this discussion on Idris Elba on Thor that people are now thinking my name is Mr. Wilson.

But why though? So they can speak English with a Scandinavian accent so it "seems" authentic?

If they truly wanted to make Vikings be somewhat authentic, they would have to cast only Icelandic actors who spoke Icelandic in the movie, since that language is the least changed from Old Norse.

That would probably be a huge hassle and make them no extra money, in fact they'd probably lose money since I don't know of any famous Icelandic actors save the Mountain dude, who's not really an actor.

YAAAAAAAS, I forgot Hafthóor Júlíus Björnsson. Maybe throw in some of those Crossfit dottirs too. Thanks for the reminder, perman.

I see that sarcasm is not the strong feat of the scandinavians, but thanks for reinforcing my point that there's a limit to "race fidelity" in movies and that there's no point in pushing the issue to the extremes.

Also, Idris Elba as Heimdall is the high point of Thor, IMO.

[perman]

I agree with @BenM: using an australian, a welsh, a japanese, a northern irish, a few americans and two londoners, freaking londoners, to portray Norse Vikings in a movie is completely inappropriate. Stelan Skarsgard and his entire prole, along with Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and Daniel Gildenlöw (<3) should have been the only players allowed in Thor.

PS: I facepalmed so hard reading this discussion on Idris Elba on Thor that people are now thinking my name is Mr. Wilson.

But why though? So they can speak English with a Scandinavian accent so it "seems" authentic?

If they truly wanted to make Vikings be somewhat authentic, they would have to cast only Icelandic actors who spoke Icelandic in the movie, since that language is the least changed from Old Norse.

That would probably be a huge hassle and make them no extra money, in fact they'd probably lose money since I don't know of any famous Icelandic actors save the Mountain dude, who's not really an actor.

YAAAAAAAS, I forgot Hafthóor Júlíus Björnsson. Maybe throw in some of those Crossfit dottirs too. Thanks for the reminder, perman.

I see that sarcasm is not the strong feat of the scandinavians, but thanks for reinforcing my point that there's a limit to "race fidelity" in movies and that there's no point in pushing the issue to the extremes.

Also, Idris Elba as Heimdall is the high point of Thor, IMO.

If my sarcasm detector is lacking, I blame text.

[Murelli]

If my sarcasm detector is lacking, I blame text.

I blame your tonal native language .

[cwd]

The Marvel movie Asgard isn't Norse. It is another planet full of high-technology aliens. This is not the canonical mythology, at all.

The humans who used to worship said aliens were Norse, that's all. Idris Elba as Heimdall, and some Australian meathead as Thor, are just fine.

[slowmotion]

yeah, the movies doesn't have much in common with norrøn mythology.

[hsilman]

The Marvel movie Asgard isn't Norse. It is another planet full of high-technology aliens. This is not the canonical mythology, at all.

The humans who used to worship said aliens were Norse, that's all. Idris Elba as Heimdall, and some Australian meathead as Thor, are just fine.

That was my next point. My immersion was immediately broken because they used human actors to portray aliens. What shitty casting.

[Allentown]

WTF I can't even go to full editor in this thread. Whatev.

Last Jedi

SpoilerShow

So much. Cut about 1/3 the film, make it 100x better. Why are laser blobs arcing through space? Why add a useless, STUPID subplot with Rose and Finn going to a stupid planet, then riding a Disney ride, then coming back, all for exactly 0 story impact? Why not kill Leia in a, really, perfect way, instead invent a stupid looking force power and keep her alive to fill out a part of the film that could have just as easily been taken by, I dunno, C3PO? Stupid idiot bird things that caused the stupid little kid sitting behind me to squeal with glee every time they were on screen. Why does every action movie hero need to be hyper-competent at everything they do, and why must every film include a stupid "barrel ride scene from the Hobbit" portion? WTF can every ship cloak now? "Tracking through hyperspace" is a HUGE departure from everything that made Star Wars cool. The whole Casino scene was just pure shit. It could have been 1,000,000 times better- guy on a casino planet? Lando! Or, just cut that whole plot. They didn't need or use a hacker anyways, all he did was short circuit a door then sell out the fleet. Which, if cloaking wasn't available to every ship anyways, they could have cut that trash out. WTF happened to the New Republic? They wiped out the galactic government in the opening crawl? Snape was a dumb, worthless villain who's only motivation seemed to be "kill Luke presumably to prevent him helping the Resistance?" If ships going to hyperspace can wipe out something like 2/3 of a fleet, why didn't the other ships who were going to be destroyed by the arcing green spoogelasers do that earlier?


Rey, Kylo, and Luke were cool though, I liked the bombers (though, what is up with shields in this movie? Did that ship just not have any? Was Poe hacking the shields during the good/alright/stupid delay tactic scene? You can just remotely hack the shields of any ship you want? Ships can/can't fly through shields?) and the Throne Room fight scene was almost as cool as the one from RotJ but with a better ending. Just... I need to see it again.

[hsilman]

I'm going to see TLJ on Thursday. I feel pretty much guaranteed to be spoiled by then, hopefully not much. I don't blame anyone, I could avoid the internet until then. I honestly have extremely low expectations. I'm super glad I bought in to MoviePass, $10/month to see 2-5 movies a month has been totally worth it. If I was paying $16-17 each for most of these movies I'd be pissed.

[Allentown]

Monday night at 4:20. $14 for two tickets. Not terrible.

[perman]

Last Jedi

SpoilerShow

So much. Cut about 1/3 the film, make it 100x better. Why are laser blobs arcing through space? Why add a useless, STUPID subplot with Rose and Finn going to a stupid planet, then riding a Disney ride, then coming back, all for exactly 0 story impact? Why not kill Leia in a, really, perfect way, instead invent a stupid looking force power and keep her alive to fill out a part of the film that could have just as easily been taken by, I dunno, C3PO? Stupid idiot bird things that caused the stupid little kid sitting behind me to squeal with glee every time they were on screen. Why does every action movie hero need to be hyper-competent at everything they do, and why must every film include a stupid "barrel ride scene from the Hobbit" portion? WTF can every ship cloak now? "Tracking through hyperspace" is a HUGE departure from everything that made Star Wars cool. The whole Casino scene was just pure shit. It could have been 1,000,000 times better- guy on a casino planet? Lando! Or, just cut that whole plot. They didn't need or use a hacker anyways, all he did was short circuit a door then sell out the fleet. Which, if cloaking wasn't available to every ship anyways, they could have cut that trash out. WTF happened to the New Republic? They wiped out the galactic government in the opening crawl? Snape was a dumb, worthless villain who's only motivation seemed to be "kill Luke presumably to prevent him helping the Resistance?" If ships going to hyperspace can wipe out something like 2/3 of a fleet, why didn't the other ships who were going to be destroyed by the arcing green spoogelasers do that earlier?


Rey, Kylo, and Luke were cool though, I liked the bombers (though, what is up with shields in this movie? Did that ship just not have any? Was Poe hacking the shields during the good/alright/stupid delay tactic scene? You can just remotely hack the shields of any ship you want? Ships can/can't fly through shields?) and the Throne Room fight scene was almost as cool as the one from RotJ but with a better ending. Just... I need to see it again.

SpoilerShow

No, I think his motivation was to save Harry.

[Murelli]

The Marvel movie Asgard isn't Norse. It is another planet full of high-technology aliens. This is not the canonical mythology, at all.

The humans who used to worship said aliens were Norse, that's all. Idris Elba as Heimdall, and some Australian meathead as Thor, are just fine.

That was my next point. My immersion was immediately broken because they used human actors to portray aliens. What shitty casting.

In the Marvel universe they are human-like, just like Superman, a shit hero for wankers (hashtag #ShitHeroForWankers, thanks DR), is an alien and looks hooman.

In the mithology they are also human-like, but they are more likely shapeshifters, so Heimdall could choose to portray himself as a beautiful black male human like Idris Elba, couldn't he?

[fishwife]

Damn, I downloaded a copy of the Dark Tower the other day - really enjoyed the books and have a bit of a man crush on Idris Elba. Still might give it a go anyway.

Yeh - he so dreamy!

Dark and smouldering. Loved him in Luther and The Wire. Still don’t entirely agree with him being cast as Heimdall - like a female Bond.

[/quote]

BACK AWAY FROM MY HUSBAND, MOTHERFUCKERS.

I will cut you.

I couldn't give even a bit of the first of two fucks about racial casting issues of that type. I note that there's a troubling dynamic at the moment among concerns about 'whitewashing', 'under-representation' and 'over-diversity'. The first two are historic problems in the entertainment industry that some are making attempts to address, and the latter is often conflated with the first two as part of knee-jerk #whataboutism. Not casting that accusation your way, to be clear.

^ alla that.


1) The Norse god characters in the Thor comic universe are aliens, anyways.
2) Everything is made better by the inclusion of Idris Elba. Everything.

[BenM]

OK, OK, clearly I am in the minority here. Like I said, it's less about him not being of Norse appearance (because it didn't affect the movie one bit and he was great) but the whole 'cast people because of their minority status' that sticks in my craw. That's IF it's happening. Which I have no guarantees it is, anyway.

Idris rocks, yada yada. Happy to change the record.