Too much volume or normal during cut?

[PatrickDB]

Have you tried stretching out your hamstrings? For example, leaning over with a kettlebell. If the issue is flexibility it's got to be hamstring flexibility.

Can you post video of your set-up? Also, how tall are you?

[timelinex]

Have you tried stretching out your hamstrings? For example, leaning over with a kettlebell. If the issue is flexibility it's got to be hamstring flexibility.

Can you post video of your set-up? Also, how tall are you?

You want a video of my setup before the pulls, or did you just post just as I posted the video. If you want to see me before the pull, here is the boring video of 2ct paused beltless deadlifts from 2 weeks ago:



Basically I just do the SS setup. 1" away from the bar,reach down, bend knees, valsalva,straighten back, then pull. The only part "not by the book" is that after doing this for months I now generally combine the reach down and bend knees part, as it's just become one motion by now. You can see in the videos though how much I have to bend my back to actually reach the bar. Way more than most other people I think.....

I'm 6ft tall. I have relatively short arms, I've had terrible flexibility my whole life, not great posture, and work in a computer chair all day. A.K.A nothing going for me to naturally be flexible enough to easily get into a deadlift position haha. This year I did fix my posture for the most part and actively try to maintain it. I started this year with not being able to reach past my knees when touching my toes (seriously that bad!). I did static strethces for a while and those barely helped. Then I found RDL's and did those for a while and those REALLY stretched me out. Now I am about 6 inches from touching my toes. I used to do RDL's before deadlifting, that would temporarily stretch me out enough to get into a semi OK position. In the last month or so I stopped since I started to be able to get in a semi decent position without them. Doing the heavy RDL's before deadlifting might help get into a still better position now but there is definitely a cost. There is a reason you don't do static stretches before heavy lifting. It definitely pre-fatigued me and sometimes I would get cramps after a heavy deadlift that I did heavy RDL's before.

[cwd]

@timelinex, I pull frog-style conventional too. Rip told me to try that at the seminar.

It works for me.

[damufunman]

Yeah, frog style should have a similar affect as slightly wider stance in that you can get your knees outta the way. Though based on this

I'm 6ft tall. I have relatively short arms, I've had terrible flexibility my whole life, not great posture, and work in a computer chair all day. A.K.A nothing going for me to naturally be flexible enough to easily get into a deadlift position haha. This year I did fix my posture for the most part and actively try to maintain it. I started this year with not being able to reach past my knees when touching my toes (seriously that bad!). I did static strethces for a while and those barely helped. Then I found RDL's and did those for a while and those REALLY stretched me out. Now I am about 6 inches from touching my toes. I used to do RDL's before deadlifting, that would temporarily stretch me out enough to get into a semi OK position. In the last month or so I stopped since I started to be able to get in a semi decent position without them. Doing the heavy RDL's before deadlifting might help get into a still better position now but there is definitely a cost. There is a reason you don't do static stretches before heavy lifting. It definitely pre-fatigued me and sometimes I would get cramps after a heavy deadlift that I did heavy RDL's before.

it sounds like you might be a good candidate for pulling sumo, though there are others her that would know better than I.

[PatrickDB]

(Tried to post from phone as messed up. Will reply later.)

[PatrickDB]

You want a video of my setup before the pulls, or did you just post just as I posted the video. If you want to see me before the pull, here is the boring video of 2ct paused beltless deadlifts from 2 weeks ago:



Basically I just do the SS setup. 1" away from the bar,reach down, bend knees, valsalva,straighten back, then pull. The only part "not by the book" is that after doing this for months I now generally combine the reach down and bend knees part, as it's just become one motion by now. You can see in the videos though how much I have to bend my back to actually reach the bar. Way more than most other people I think.....

I watched your video. I think your setup could be tweaked a bit to help with the back thing.

You should do the steps in order and not mash them together. You should set the bar farther from your foot -- midfoot or or even a touch beyond. Measure your feet and the distance from your shin to midfoot. 1" isn't far enough even on me (and I am not 6 feet). Looking at the bar from the top down screws with your perspective.

Also, watch the Baraki/Thrall YouTube video on common deadlift errors. When you bring your shins to the bar, make sure you aren't just rocking forward to bring the shins to the bar, but bringing your hips down. This is unclear/wrong in the book.

These things fixed the same issue when I did them. But you seem to have a more severe case.

I'm 6ft tall. I have relatively short arms, I've had terrible flexibility my whole life, not great posture, and work in a computer chair all day.

However, if these tweaks don't work, this data suggests you should be pulling sumo.

You're currently not even close to being in extension when pulling conventionally. Personally I would not be comfortable with that, from a safety perspective.

[michael]

Are you sure you know how to pull your chest up, because it looks like you don't even try to pull your chest up?

Try to pull 135 off the floor with just a pull and no leg drive. What I mean is get the weight to break off the floor with no leg drive. Just pull your chest up so hard the bar lifts off the ground before you push with your legs.

Take a look at the video and see if your back got into extension.

And sumo is lame.

[PatrickDB]

Are you sure you know how to pull your chest up, because it looks like you don't even try to pull your chest up?

He can't do it because the part before that is messed up.

Look at the angle of his arms, and the position of the bar relative to his shoulder blades. The bar should be under the shoulder blades. Instead it is under his belly.

The tweaks I suggested should help with this. I'm optimistic the problem is solvable with correct technique.

[michael]

Are you sure you know how to pull your chest up, because it looks like you don't even try to pull your chest up?

He can't do it because the part before that is messed up.

Look at the angle of his arms, and the position of the bar relative to his shoulder blades. The bar should be under the shoulder blades. Instead it is under his belly.

The tweaks I suggested should help with this. I'm optimistic the problem is solvable with correct technique.

I agree.

[Manveer]

And sumo is lame.

Excellent analysis.

[omaniphil]

Are you sure you know how to pull your chest up, because it looks like you don't even try to pull your chest up?

He can't do it because the part before that is messed up.

Look at the angle of his arms, and the position of the bar relative to his shoulder blades. The bar should be under the shoulder blades. Instead it is under his belly.

The tweaks I suggested should help with this. I'm optimistic the problem is solvable with correct technique.

Another thing you could try @timelinex is to rock back a little bit just after putting your back in extension and before pulling. That, in addition with the steps Patrick mentioned might help get your shoulder blades over the bar better by forcing a slight dropping of the hips. Its typically pretty subtle, but worked for me. But given your t-rex anthropometry though, you might be a good candidate for sumo.

[timelinex]

You want a video of my setup before the pulls, or did you just post just as I posted the video. If you want to see me before the pull, here is the boring video of 2ct paused beltless deadlifts from 2 weeks ago:

Basically I just do the SS setup. 1" away from the bar,reach down, bend knees, valsalva,straighten back, then pull. The only part "not by the book" is that after doing this for months I now generally combine the reach down and bend knees part, as it's just become one motion by now. You can see in the videos though how much I have to bend my back to actually reach the bar. Way more than most other people I think.....

I watched your video. I think your setup could be tweaked a bit to help with the back thing.

You should do the steps in order and not mash them together. You should set the bar farther from your foot -- midfoot or or even a touch beyond. Measure your feet and the distance from your shin to midfoot. 1" isn't far enough even on me (and I am not 6 feet). Looking at the bar from the top down screws with your perspective.

Also, watch the Baraki/Thrall YouTube video on common deadlift errors. When you bring your shins to the bar, make sure you aren't just rocking forward to bring the shins to the bar, but bringing your hips down. This is unclear/wrong in the book.

These things fixed the same issue when I did them. But you seem to have a more severe case.

I'm 6ft tall. I have relatively short arms, I've had terrible flexibility my whole life, not great posture, and work in a computer chair all day.

However, if these tweaks don't work, this data suggests you should be pulling sumo.

You're currently not even close to being in extension when pulling conventionally. Personally I would not be comfortable with that, from a safety perspective.

Thank you for the advice patrick. I have 2ct paused deadlifts again today so I will try to apply the advice you gave me. I just measured my foot and midfoot is a solid 2" away from my shins.

So.

1. Stand further away from the bar than usual.
2. Reach down with minimal knee bend to get to the bar (I will have to bend my knees a little to reach the bar no matter what)
3. Drop hips at the same time as bringing knees to the bar. Am I not doing this? I wanted to make sure I'm clear on this

I will try to get it filmed again today. Any particular angle the best?

[timelinex]

Are you sure you know how to pull your chest up, because it looks like you don't even try to pull your chest up?

Try to pull 135 off the floor with just a pull and no leg drive. What I mean is get the weight to break off the floor with no leg drive. Just pull your chest up so hard the bar lifts off the ground before you push with your legs.

Take a look at the video and see if your back got into extension.

And sumo is lame.

I am pulling as hard as I can. So much so that sometime I get a damn neck cramp by trying to pull so hard. I know it doesn't look like it because of how much curvature my back still has. But you can definitely see my back goes from cat-like to only a little bend. I've been battling this all year now. I've tried a ton of different things, including seeing an SSC.

Hopefully Patricks advice helps.

[Hanley]

Bro, you are much, much too forward. Sit back before pulling.

[PatrickDB]

Watch the Baraki/Thrall video and listen to Hanley.

Would love to look at your video from today. Curious if this stuff fixed it.

That side view is good, imo. Have whoever is filming brace the camera against their arm so it doesn't move as much. Or prop it up on a bench, or something like that.

[timelinex]

You guys are absolutely AMAZING. Especially Patrick for his exact breakdown. Yesterday was the first time I have deadlifted with a legitimately straight back in my entire life. I've had my deadlift critiqued on the SSC coach's forum, I've had it on the SS technique forum, and I've had a few sessions with an actual SSC. The responses can generally be diluted to "have you tried to just like pull your back up brah" as if I'm not already pulling as hard as a can.

Here are my 4 work sets of 2ct paused deadlifts from last night. I edited them together and included the setup 275x3@7, 285x3@8, 305x3@9, 305x3@9



A few comments. It definitely feels weird and will take some time getting used to this new position. The balance feels very different. I also feel alot less in my back, so I'm less "aware" of my back starting to lose that extension once I start getting tired. In the last set I definitely started to lose some of that flat back. I was tired and focusing on the form and movement. But thats OK. I'll do better next time now that I know I can. The weight wasn't too heavy, my focus just wasn't right.

I can't believe I've basically been doing a rounded SLDL the entire time

[PatrickDB]

Here are my 4 work sets of 2ct paused deadlifts from last night. I edited them together and included the setup 275x3@7, 285x3@8, 305x3@9, 305x3@9

Nice work dude! Looks like you start with your shoulder blades over the bar, where they should be!

The only comment I have is that while you crank down on the upper back hard, I think you could extend the lower back even harder.

Some things that might help:
Doing the "superman" drill in the book to feel what muscles to use.
This video, at the 1 minute mark:
The cue "Show your asshole to the wall."
Thinking of shoving your butt back and up a few millimeters once you've set the upper back.

I've been struggling with this recently too and the last one is the only one that worked for me. Done right you'll feel tension in your hamstrings, like a rubber band, and the first few inches of the pull will feel tighter.

(Also, if we want to get nitpicky, maybe the bar is a touch too far from your shins or your hips a touch too low, since I can see them rise just a hair when you start pulling. But I'm sure you'll optimize this for yourself when you go heavier, and hips a touch too low is essentially non-problem compared to hips starting way too high.)

Maybe @Hanley can also comment and double check my thoughts here.

Edited to add: Actually, things look pretty good before you pause on the 275 set, though maybe you're slightly losing extension when restarting the pull after pausing. So if you regular DL I think everything would be fine.

I'd also suggest playing with a wider stance, keeping the knees out, to see if you like that.

[Allentown]

Bro, you are much, much too forward. Sit back before pulling.

If this is what the Brian Shaw video was demonstrating, this is what I am working on moving my DL toward. Felt good when I did it right.

[Hanley]

@timelinex

Oh man, so much better. I do agree with @PatrickDB . You've over-corrected a bit. The bar is a smidge too far from your shins now and your butt is a tiny bit too low. Just a little. Just play with the positioning a bit.

And, yeah, practice setting your low back into extension. Practice this all the time until you get it. Not just while lifting. Practice while at work, while walking the dog, etc. You need to have the "biomechanical aha" of feeling your low back in absolutely rigid extension. There's only so much anyone can do to lead you to the "aha moment".

These "biomechanical aha" moments are like any aha moment. They seem to come from nowhere after days/weeks/months of unrelentingly wrestling with a problem. But once you have that breakthrough, you're set for your lifting career. I can't tell you how much time I've spent practicing air squats to feel "bounce". Or walking around bracing my erectors to feel setting my lower back into extension.

[PatrickDB]

You need to have the "biomechanical aha" of feeling your low back in absolutely rigid extension. There's only so much anyone can do to lead you to the "aha moment".

Am I insane or is this usually accompanied (in a deadlift setup) by a feeling of taking the slack out of the hamstrings?

Because trying to directly move the small lumbar erector muscles while I'm bent over is hard for me, but aiming for that hamstring tightness is not because it's a much "larger" thing and easier to feel, and on video doing the latter seems to produce the desired lower back extension. (I use that cue of pushing the butt up just a smidge, which I guess indirectly cues the lumber erectors and gets me hamstring tension. The direct cues didn't work for me.)