Exodus Strength

platypus wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:48 pm
I'm really skeptical as to the importance of nutrient timing.

Of course, my diet is usually garbage and I have the physique and lifts that you'd expect from a garbage diet, so my experience doesn't leave me with much to go on.

Wilhelm wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:43 pm https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2278544/

This is where i first saw the above paper referenced -
https://spotmebro.com/layne-norton-phd- ... how-often/

Someone else mentioned Schoenfeld holds to this timimg model as well.

This is my last post.

Wilhelm wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:08 am

platypus wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:48 pm
I'm really skeptical as to the importance of nutrient timing.

Of course, my diet is usually garbage and I have the physique and lifts that you'd expect from a garbage diet, so my experience doesn't leave me with much to go on.

Wilhelm wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:43 pm https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2278544/

This is where i first saw the above paper referenced -
https://spotmebro.com/layne-norton-phd- ... how-often/

Someone else mentioned Schoenfeld holds to this timimg model as well.

This is my last post.

Here's what the study doesn't cover: what happens to an athlete's body composition when they keep their nutrient intake the same, but spread it out over a different number of meals?

Let's say an athlete consumes 300g protein, 200g carbs, and 100g fat every day, in one meal. (Not saying this is perfect macros or anything, just an example). He does this for a while, then starts consuming the same macros but over eight meals, or three meals. Or any number, really. Will anything very different happen?

I know people who have gotten jacked with all sorts of bizarre meal schedules, from once a day all the way to hourly feedings. So I'm very skeptical that nutrient timing is terribly important. But I'd like to see this study done. Maybe it has been.

Dr. Norton mentioned a study with a similiar concept, where consuming protein once a day worked better than four times, but it was done on elderly woman eating 60g protein a day, and I don't think other nutrients were counted for. I really want to see this done on athletes.

platypus wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:28 am Dr. Norton mentioned a study with a similiar concept, where consuming protein once a day worked better than four times, but it was done on elderly woman eating 60g protein a day, and I don't think other nutrients were counted for. I really want to see this done on athletes.

In my head, this supports the idea of a per meal amino acid threshold that needs to be met. And old ladies are probably very insensitive to such a threshold. So 60g of Protein once a day at least gets the MPS machinery working once vs never.

platypus wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:48 pmI'm really skeptical as to the importance of nutrient timing.

Skeptical that it's important, or skeptical that it's even part of that last 5% of things to work on?

I saw something floating around on the web that no more than 0.82g/lbs (of total body weight) of protein is required for optimal muscle growth.

I'm not saying I subscribe to this, but does anyone have any thoughts?

My thought is that none of us know enough about nutrition, specifically protein metabolism, to really do anything more than repeat what seems to make sense to us, or give our personal experience.

Mahendra wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:27 am I saw something floating around on the web that no more than 0.82g/lbs (of total body weight) of protein is required for optimal muscle growth.

I'm not saying I subscribe to this, but does anyone have any thoughts?

That's the figure i came up with after extensive searching. There were some outliers among "normal" people (i.e. not the Eddie Halls of the world) who showed some benefit at 1 to 1.5 grams even.

More won't hurt you, so i shoot for pretty close to 1g per lb bw.

The timing is almost surely important.
I don't think it's accurate to say we know so little that we can't make some statements regarding this.
If you are doing a bolus every 2 to 3 hours, you are likely just wasting it.

I won't cite the info i've already posted here two or three times.

This really is my last post here.

SeanHerbison wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:34 am My thought is that none of us know enough about nutrition, specifically protein metabolism, to really do anything more than repeat what seems to make sense to us, or give our personal experience.

This seems like a pretty good summary.

SeanHerbison wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:32 am

platypus wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:48 pmI'm really skeptical as to the importance of nutrient timing.

Skeptical that it's important, or skeptical that it's even part of that last 5% of things to work on?

That's a tough question. There's definitely situations where meal frequency matters. The obvious would be getting huge, like competitive bodybuilder huge. Eating enough to do that while on the warrior diet would be practically impossible. In that example, though, I hypothesize it's less the nutrient timing that makes the difference, and more the fact that it's really hard to eat 12,000 calories at one meal.

I know nutrient timing isn't important for the general trainee, like me or my friends who lift. Based on anecdotal evidence- when my total food intake is roughly the same the way I space it out makes no difference in my workouts. Meal frequency is a different question than nutrient timing, though, because how many meals I eat changes how much total food I can consume in a day. But when the amount is the same the timing hasn't mattered in my (limited) experience.

I'm probably making my thoughts as clear as mud at this point. I'm skeptical that nutrient timing matters at all, but I'm quite certain it's not important for me. My perception is also skewed by the fact that I only personally know one advanced lifter. I'm not strong enough to really beat myself up during a workout, and neither are most of my friends. This could obviously affect how important our nutrient timing is.

SeanHerbison wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:34 am My thought is that none of us know enough about nutrition, specifically protein metabolism, to really do anything more than repeat what seems to make sense to us, or give our personal experience.

Yeah, this makes more sense than what I said.

broseph wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:50 am

SeanHerbison wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:34 am My thought is that none of us know enough about nutrition, specifically protein metabolism, to really do anything more than repeat what seems to make sense to us, or give our personal experience.

This seems like a pretty good summary.

Yeah but that makes for a boring thread.

Regarding nutrient timing, for the past ~3 months, I've been eating 2 main meals a day, with a small snack in between.

It consists of something like this:

Breakfast (after morning training):
- Protein shake w/banana
- 3 eggs + 2 slices of bread

Lunch "snack":
Apple
Crackers
Cheddar Cheese

Dinner:
Large meal consisting of enough carbs, protein & fats to meet my remaining macros & calories.
And Ice cream. There's always room for ice cream.

Since I'm small people (and especially during my cut), this allows me to eat more satisfying foods for breakfast & dinner (which are my 2 favourite meals - I dislike lunch time). Now that I've returned to maintenance calories, I can have an even bigger, more delicious dinner.

Regarding training - I don't think it's had any adverse effects on my training at all. Maybe it isn't optimal, but that might be hard to quantify.

SeanHerbison wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:34 am My thought is that none of us know enough about nutrition, specifically protein metabolism, to really do anything more than just eat more protein.

Fixed.

This entire discussion is pointless masturbation.

DirtyRed wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:13 pm pointless masturbation.

none-such-beast

Over time I have settle on 4 meals or three meals and a snack. usually 50-60 grams of animal portion a meal but sometimes I am on the go and get by with 25-30 and an apple. Doesn't really make a difference unless I am on a cut, then I need to get 260 a day or my lifts go to shit.
usually I get nervous if I don't hit the big 200 mark. this is likely mental conditioning.

Mahendra wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:53 am Regarding nutrient timing, for the past ~3 months, I've been eating 2 main meals a day, with a small snack in between.

It consists of something like this:

Breakfast (after morning training):
- Protein shake w/banana
- 3 eggs + 2 slices of bread

Lunch "snack":
Apple
Crackers
Cheddar Cheese

Dinner:
Large meal consisting of enough carbs, protein & fats to meet my remaining macros & calories.
And Ice cream. There's always room for ice cream.

Since I'm small people (and especially during my cut), this allows me to eat more satisfying foods for breakfast & dinner (which are my 2 favourite meals - I dislike lunch time). Now that I've returned to maintenance calories, I can have an even bigger, more delicious dinner.

Regarding training - I don't think it's had any adverse effects on my training at all. Maybe it isn't optimal, but that might be hard to quantify.

I stopped doing this.

Now I eat a "real" breakfast, lunch & dinner with animal protein in each meal.

I couldn't handle eating apple, crackers and cheddar cheese alone in the middle of the day anymore.