Bad Advice About Higher Reps: A Rebuttal

[slowmotion]

Has there ever been a study of resulting brain damage from playing soccer vs rugby vs American football?

[cole]

Has there ever been a study of resulting brain damage from playing soccer vs rugby vs American football?

My guess would be American footballers are at a higher risk manyfold

[DirtyRed]

Has there ever been a study of resulting brain damage from playing soccer vs rugby vs American football?

Maybe not directly brain damage as a long term result, but American football players suffer more concussions than rugby players. Which would almost necessarily mean that they end up with more brain damage on average.

It's not fair to compare soccer players because their parents obviously dropped them on their heads many, many times when they were children.

Also, fun fact, the IRB dorks "analyzed" concussions in rugby at found that about 90% of them occurred during a tackle. No surprise there. But of those, about 75% happened to the tackler, not the tacklee. Possibly because the tacklee is allowed to lower their shoulder and protect themselves while the tackler, by rule, has to lunge head-first at the sturdiest part of the tacklee's body.

Just stating facts, not complaining. It was alarming that the IRB said they wanted to review possible changes in order to make rugby (note: RUGBY) safer, because western civilization is slowly becoming one giant vagina.

[DirtyRed]

I'm not gonna pay to read the entire study, but I thought this was pretty interesting: after a few training sessions, muscle volume increases are the result of some hypertrophy, but mostly swelling/inflammation from muscle damage. After 18+ training sessions is when you can start to see real hypertrophy from resistance training. I'm paraphrasing the abstract, and if someone here has access or wants to pay, great. If not, then it's something to think about even if it has no practical application.

cc: @Hanley

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 017-3792-9

And doubleposting because I just now saw this.

Headline: Diligently Consistent Application of Physical Training Yields Results.

[BenM]

Has there ever been a study of resulting brain damage from playing soccer vs rugby vs American football?

My guess would be American footballers are at a higher risk manyfold

I think it’s not as manyfold as you might think because of the protection that American footballers wear and because of the repeated headers (and head clashes that go along with it) in soccer.

[JonA]

Also, in response to Handlethon's claim in another thread I can't specifically remember right now that deadlift as better carry over to general athletics than squat, I'd MUCH rather a rugby player have a high squat than deadlift. Ditto for American football. Deadlifts aren't going to train quadriceps to nearly the extent required by those sports, and both of those sports are going to feature extending your knee from a large degree of flexion against resistance. A squat trains this better.

*Front* squat trains this better. And it's pretty rare to see flexion to the same degree as a squat in a sport other than weight lifting.

I don't see how deadlifts would carry over very well either. Slow, concentric only lift? Stretch reflex dominates in pretty much any sport and it's completely absent in the deadlift.

[Mkgillman]

I think it’s not as manyfold as you might think because of the protection that American footballers wear and because of the repeated headers (and head clashes that go along with it) in soccer.

When I had to go through concussion training for youth lacrosse and hockey it was stated that the highest number of concussions were in soccer, at least for kids. Those numbers may be changing as USA Soccer has changed the rules and kids aren’t allowed to practice headers until they are older (10-11?) and can’t use them in game situations until the next age group.

[Allentown]

Kids under 10 actually practice for soccer? Beyond, like, "hey, kick the ball back and forth while standing in a line!"

[perman]

Kids under 10 actually practice for soccer? Beyond, like, "hey, kick the ball back and forth while standing in a line!"

Nah, the most played sport with the most money which is played in poor countries everywhere treats all it's child talents gently.

[Allentown]

@perman Hold on, are you saying soccer has the most money? AFAICT you have to sum up 6-7 of the most valuable soccer leagues to just match the NFL. And college football TV rights alone nearly double the "money" in football- you've got single colleges who bring in more money from football than entire soccer leagues. I'd guess there is more money in football in the US than soccer in the world.

[perman]

@perman Hold on, are you saying soccer has the most money? AFAICT you have to sum up 6-7 of the most valuable soccer leagues to just match the NFL. And college football TV rights alone nearly double the "money" in football- you've got single colleges who bring in more money from football than entire soccer leagues. I'd guess there is more money in football in the US than soccer in the world.

Like duh? There are about 300 million people in America. There are about 7 billion people everywhere else, and almost everywhere else watches soccer (the TV-deals for the biggest leagues bring in huge sums of money since they sell that to most countries). Champion's League is the common denominator for the richest soccer clubs though, people watch that everywhere and the cash prizes are huge.

Also, money-wise, there are no wage caps in soccer leagues, so wages tend to be higher in soccer clubs than in comparably grossing football clubs. Thus further incentivizing what I was talking about.

Where football beats soccer money-wise though is clubs are far more profitable, since you have your franchises rather than the ruthless competition of open leagues with relegation where clubs have to spend all their money to win and get more money.

[Allentown]

Professional sports leagues by revenue, single season
NFL- $13B
MLB- $9.5B
NBA- $5.8B
Premier League- $4.8B
NHL- $3.7B
Bundesliga- $3.2B
La Liga- $2.0B
Serie A- $1.9B
Ligue 1- $1.4B
Then a bunch under a billion dollars. So the top 5 soccer leagues combine to match the NFL for revenue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... by_revenue

The $10B I saw for college football TV rights is actually a 14y deal, so just $.8B a year which changes a lot, but you've got the top 20 colleges alone combining for $1B in additional revenue. Only 110 other colleges to include in the FBS, plus another 124 in the FCS (very low revenue).

[perman]

Sure, no individual European league can compare as they all belong to smaller countries, but the top teams compete internationally in Champions League, and earn money internationally as well (tv rights, jerseys). The Champion's League final annually crushes the Super Bowl ratings-wise.

[Allentown]

I'll give it to you if there is some sort of league above whatever the Premier League. Regardless, I assume we are talking about the US, where I will not accept that kids under 10 do anything besides "kick the ball to the person standing in the line across from you" because I don't care enough about soccer to learn anything more. There is a guy on my street who is a travel soccer coach with an Olivia Munn-looking wife, so either she makes bank or travel soccer coaches in West Michigan do alright for themselves.

[aurelius]

I'm late to the party but would just have this to add:
After becoming a solid intermediate: training for a powerlifting total is similar to training for a marathon. It makes you better at that and not much else.

And what about the lowest hanging fruit theory of training? If one only lifts in 1-5 rep range for years, then it would seem that at some point the lowest hanging fruit in terms of adaptation would be to increase the rep range for a time to provide a different stimulus.

IMO, there are other benefits to working other rep ranges 8-12 with moderate loads (one of the reasons I am switching my focus). Yes, I am stronger as measured by my 1 rep max but am I anymore athletic with a 1345 total than I was with a 1200 total? Or even a 1100 total? Marginally at best.

An n=1 observation. In preparation for my switch to higher volume training, I reduced my rest periods to 2 minutes for reps of 8 or more using 50-60% of my 1RM. And that kicked my ass. Conditioning non-existent.

[perman]

I'll give it to you if there is some sort of league above whatever the Premier League. Regardless, I assume we are talking about the US, where I will not accept that kids under 10 do anything besides "kick the ball to the person standing in the line across from you" because I don't care enough about soccer to learn anything more. There is a guy on my street who is a travel soccer coach with an Olivia Munn-looking wife, so either she makes bank or travel soccer coaches in West Michigan do alright for themselves.

Come on, is Champion's League honestly something you don't even know what is?

It's a yearly tournament with 32 European teams selected from the top of European football leagues (with a pre-tournament for unseeded teams like for instance weak Norwegian league winners). The amount of slots given to each country depend on nation ranking lists. The final 32 teams play in a 8 groups of 4, where the 2 highest teams in each group make it into a tournament of 16. Huge cash prices, the top team here in Norway for instance built their dominance through a spree in the 90s where they

It is essentially the biggest annual sporting tournament in the World, and the place where dominant teams in leagues get to test whether they're actually good internationally.

[Allentown]

Come on, is Champion's League honestly something you don't even know what is?

Honestly never heard of it.

[d0uevenlift]

I'm late to the party but would just have this to add:
After becoming a solid intermediate: training for a powerlifting total is similar to training for a marathon. It makes you better at that and not much else.

And what about the lowest hanging fruit theory of training? If one only lifts in 1-5 rep range for years, then it would seem that at some point the lowest hanging fruit in terms of adaptation would be to increase the rep range for a time to provide a different stimulus.

IMO, there are other benefits to working other rep ranges 8-12 with moderate loads (one of the reasons I am switching my focus). Yes, I am stronger as measured by my 1 rep max but am I anymore athletic with a 1345 total than I was with a 1200 total? Or even a 1100 total? Marginally at best.

An n=1 observation. In preparation for my switch to higher volume training, I reduced my rest periods to 2 minutes for reps of 8 or more using 50-60% of my 1RM. And that kicked my ass. Conditioning non-existent.

You chose to specialize and became decent at it. You bemoan not being athletic with a 1345 total... but you have a 1345 total. How many tennis, basketball or soccer players can say the same? Few.

I never understood this dichotomy. “I can squat 405 but I can’t run a mile.” So start running.

[michael]

I'm late to the party but would just have this to add:
After becoming a solid intermediate: training for a powerlifting total is similar to training for a marathon. It makes you better at that and not much else.

And what about the lowest hanging fruit theory of training? If one only lifts in 1-5 rep range for years, then it would seem that at some point the lowest hanging fruit in terms of adaptation would be to increase the rep range for a time to provide a different stimulus.

IMO, there are other benefits to working other rep ranges 8-12 with moderate loads (one of the reasons I am switching my focus). Yes, I am stronger as measured by my 1 rep max but am I anymore athletic with a 1345 total than I was with a 1200 total? Or even a 1100 total? Marginally at best.

An n=1 observation. In preparation for my switch to higher volume training, I reduced my rest periods to 2 minutes for reps of 8 or more using 50-60% of my 1RM. And that kicked my ass. Conditioning non-existent.

You chose to specialize and became decent at it. You bemoan not being athletic with a 1345 total... but you have a 1345 total. How many tennis, basketball or soccer players can say the same? Few.

I never understood this dichotomy. “I can squat 405 but I can’t run a mile.” So start running.

Odd that the solution is bodybuilding? Yeah, bodybuilders are super athletic.

[aurelius]

I never understood this dichotomy. “I can squat 405 but I can’t run a mile.” So start running.

Not really bemoaning. This is more of an academic thing. As my dreams of being an athlete were crushed with inferior genetics. Consider my original question. How much MORE athletic am I with a 1345 total compared to an 1100 total? Do I jump higher, run faster, punch harder? I'd be surprised to see even a marginal increase in athletic performance. As to running, I don't equate being able to carry oneself at a moderate pace for a relatively short distance as 'athletic'.

Think of a torque curve. One wants a 'flat' curve that delivers power throughout the entire RPM range. Why is it so radical to state that there are benefits for training in rep ranges 8-12? Just try doing moderate weight for 10 or more reps with under 2 minute rests between sets. It ain't all that easy. I found myself quickly dropping to sub 60% weight to maintain the rest period and would still fail on my last set. I probably need to start at 50% of my 1RM but my ego is getting in the way.

I've done 5 years of strength then power lifting focused training (increasing one rep max). Is it crazy to think that I have 'low hanging fruit' adaptations I can achieve with less effort by utilizing a different training paradigm for a period of time?