Controversies in Olympic Weightlifting

[damufunman]

Lu doesn't bench ... really.
Can only strict OHP 80 to 90 kilos.
Can bottom-up OHS 220 kilos.
Squat jerk from rack PR is 230.

Enuff sed.



I don't give any credence to what he says about benching vs. not benching, and benching 'ruining' your shoulder mobility .... sure, some of that might be true to a certain extent depending on the context, etc. But the moral of the story, full ROM pressing movements do not carry-over (much) to going thru that same ROM under a almost weightless condition (feet are not in contact w/ the floor or loaded) during the "push-under" phase of the jerk .... except for the final lockout.

The lockout portion of the ROM of your strict over-head-press, is a really relatively a low weight compared to the weight of the jerk.

Jerks, power jerks, push jerks, push press, jerk supports, jerk recoveries, are all better options.

I'm starting to come to this conclusion, though I suspect unless elite level there might be a minimum level of pressing (overhead or horizontal???) strength.

[mbasic]

I'm starting to come to this conclusion, though I suspect unless elite level there might be a minimum level of pressing (overhead or horizontal???) strength.

I think the (bench or OH) pressing is more of a value from a rehab / prehab / strengthening the stabilizers thing.
Its not a X-strength-movement-pattern translates into Y-quick-lift-movement-pattern of similar ROM and joint mechaincs.

Sure, this idea of "carryover" would totally apply to say FSqt to Clean, or DL to a quick pull.

But most of the arm and shoulder action in the jerk occurs under near no load conditions, until the lockout, or say a pressout.

I wonder why no one does super heavy laborsome strict up-right rows, in an attempt to improve your pull-under in the clean? /s

-------------------------------------

In that reddit thread that spawned from the LuX video, a poster commented the Klokov's press was only so strong because he started pressing with a lot more frequency after he hurt his shoulder in an attempt to rehab/re-strengthen it...
(injured trying to break his dad's rack-jerk record IIRC, lol).... this^ was from a Klokov interview.

Klokov was often cited as an example of pressing strength. "See look, stronf soviet boi doin his pres's". But truth comes out.

[Cellist]

Lu doesn't bench ... really.
Can only strict OHP 80 to 90 kilos.
Can bottom-up OHS 220 kilos.
Squat jerk from rack PR is 230.

Enuff sed.



I don't give any credence to what he says about benching vs. not benching, and benching 'ruining' your shoulder mobility .... sure, some of that might be true to a certain extent depending on the context, etc. But the moral of the story, full ROM pressing movements do not carry-over (much) to going thru that same ROM under a almost weightless condition (feet are not in contact w/ the floor or loaded) during the "push-under" phase of the jerk .... except for the final lockout.

The lockout portion of the ROM of your strict over-head-press, is a really relatively a low weight compared to the weight of the jerk.

Jerks, power jerks, push jerks, push press, jerk supports, jerk recoveries, are all better options.

But those weighted dips doh,

[mbasic]

But those weighted dips doh,

that's a good point.

"...someone should tell him he's training wrong pushing down instead of up..."

[asdf]

Bench pressing definitely tightens up my shoulders and, absent active countermeasures, reduces my overhead mobility.

Conversely, dips seem to increase my range of motion and definitely don't interfere with my overhead positions.

So I can see where Lu is coming from.

[mbasic]

I guess this goes here



(more of an IOC/WADA problem though)

[Daverin2112]

Off of a guess, Lu might not like benching because his style of jerk catch seems strongly protracted and internally rotated with strong upper back stabilization. Kind of runs "counter" to the generally agreed premise that retracting and setting the back for a more fixed shoulder is best bench practice. You'd think someone like Lu would be motor-savvy enough to keep distinct, but maybe it's just not worth the trouble for him? And ofc, dips do plenty for this. If anything, I am surprised even his push press is so low. You'd think he could practically drive more than that overhead with no dip...

And at this point, IOC has a hundred problems, minimum. Each one pretty much worth cutting loose. inb4 dozens of tested and untested feds.

[mbasic]

The Lu Don't Bench thing has snowballed quite a bit since a posted that.
Seems like MSM has an ax to grind with bench press or something ...

https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a370 ... nch-press/

https://www.insider.com/weightlifter-lu ... ity-2021-7

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/world-c ... 00054.html

This is like that Strongman dude (who couldn't make it in football/NFL) who said people/athletes shouldn't deadlift because its too injurious on the Joe Rogan podcast.

[damufunman]

The Lu Don't Bench thing has snowballed quite a bit since a posted that.
Seems like MSM has an ax to grind with bench press or something ...

Think related to Olympics and that being more widely viewed (in the US) than weightlifting as a whole?

ETA: Also, all three linked articles are nearly exactly the same article...

[mbasic]

The Lu Don't Bench thing has snowballed quite a bit since a posted that.
Seems like MSM has an ax to grind with bench press or something ...

Think related to Olympics and that being more widely viewed (in the US) than weightlifting as a whole?

ETA: Also, all three linked articles are nearly exactly the same article...

lolz and *snorts*

[asdf]

Can someone explain to me to why lifters are allowed to duck-walk snatches, chase jerks to the very front of the platform, bounce around in the hole, fail to stand up a snatch or clean yet re-bend (hips and knees) for a second (or third) shot....

But they cannot, must not, have any movement in THE ELBOW.

They can even pee all over the platform and not get red lights.

But god forbid there's a perceptible, even if miniscule, unlocking and relocking of THE ELBOW.

/rant

[ChrisMcCarthy1979]

Cause those are the rules, I guess?

[damufunman]

Cause those are the rules, I guess?

Yeah, I think it's mostly this. Might be related to previously competing in Press as well, so there needs to be a distinction between a Press and a Jerk (and therefore also Snatch?). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There is a movement (or maybe just some people with opinions that) to abolish the press out rule, so maybe that''ll happen in the future.

[ChrisMcCarthy1979]

Yeah, I think it's mostly this. Might be related to previously competing in Press as well, so there needs to be a distinction between a Press and a Jerk (and therefore also Snatch?). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There is a movement (or maybe just some people with opinions that) to abolish the press out rule, so maybe that''ll happen in the future.

I've ummed and ahhed over the Pressout rule over the years...to me it's one of the quintessential elements of Weightlifting so it should stay in, there'd be too much argument over whether the bar is fully locked out otherwise!

[damufunman]

Yeah, I think it's mostly this. Might be related to previously competing in Press as well, so there needs to be a distinction between a Press and a Jerk (and therefore also Snatch?). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There is a movement (or maybe just some people with opinions that) to abolish the press out rule, so maybe that''ll happen in the future.

I've ummed and ahhed over the Pressout rule over the years...to me it's one of the quintessential elements of Weightlifting so it should stay in, there'd be too much argument over whether the bar is fully locked out otherwise!

I dunno, I think the notion of "if it's overhead, stood up, and controlled" would be perfectly acceptable. Some judgement on "controlled," but probably as good as it's gonna get.

[mbasic]

#1- If you re-stall elbow wiggle, then it turns into a strongman thing

#2- that going to keep some of the weights down there, etc

#3- I agree about the walking all over the platform thing.

4 sq meters is way too much .... they should reduce it to 3m or 2.75m .... people would have to give up on lifts that were/are getting away from them much earlier. Bar would have to start at the center; two 0.5 m red squares spaced where the plates normally are at when the loaders are done centering the bar, and the lift has to start from there (you'd have guys roll the bar toward the rear of the platform and then start their lifts)....something like that.

[damufunman]

#3- I agree about the walking all over the platform thing.

4 sq meters is way too much .... they should reduce it to 3m or 2.75m .... people would have to give up on lifts that were/are getting away from them much earlier.

Also more of the hilarious losing the bar into the judge's table / crowd. Those look fun, especially after a blackout and the lifter holds on as the barbell is rolling away.

[5hout]

Cause those are the rules, I guess?

Yeah, I think it's mostly this. Might be related to previously competing in Press as well, so there needs to be a distinction between a Press and a Jerk (and therefore also Snatch?). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There is a movement (or maybe just some people with opinions that) to abolish the press out rule, so maybe that''ll happen in the future.

I would love to see this. With the press gone, who cares if you press it out a tiny bit? I get not letting people squat down onto the floor (butt to floor), but the elbow thing is little completely and totally silly.

[TheDuke]

So Lu won gold in Tokyo in -81 kg weight class, despite lifting 5 kg less than in the last two Olympics in -77 kg weight class.

[Daverin2112]

I don't think the outcry on pressouts was so loud before this Olympics, but it sounds like a huge part of the problem is a veeery overactive jury all too happy to use slo-mo replays.

The rule probably isn't so bad in real time judging of the refs, but if the jury further back is going to just check the tapes for every slight, then yeah, it needs adjusting.

Also, Lasha isn't human. That is all. And something something Hip Clean.