LOW TESTOSTERONE???

[cole]

@mbasic you said brief stint. what made you stop?

[mbasic]

@mbasic you said brief stint. what made you stop?

I was doing the TRT clinic-route/self pay.
The clinic seemed good IMO... from the horror stories I've heard about clinics and actual doctor-doctors.

My PSA went high all of the sudden like 4-5 months into TRT.
So then, they put your treatment on hold and perform a retest on PSA.
Tested high a 2nd time....also had to wait forever for 2nd test results (they lost data or something).
Lost another 5 days or something there w/ the 2nd test.
Clinc's protocol is when your PSA goes high, you have to get cleared by your doctor or say a urologist before resuming treatment.
Yep ... a cold hard stop on injections.

So then ... I had a really hard time getting an appointment for either a Uro or my doc ....like 2+ week wait !!
Had prostate 'digital' check and more blood work by Uro.
And then maybe another week for Urologist blood results.
I was then 'cleared'.

So then I was 3-1/2 weeks into total-cold-turkey (no PCT by the way), so decided to just ride it out to the end so to speak.
Before all this, the thought was creeping into my head about coming off anyway....

They tried a few different injection schemes, doses, etc and I was having e2 side-effects, or better said: just general TRT side effects.
I went in for mental health problems (depression, aniexty, etc).
I have known about my low levels for about 8 years .... (200-299 range) and though I would try to see if it would help.
It helped a little with the mental stuff, but not much after a while.

I had no dick problems before TRT; sex drive was always good.
About 3-4 month into TRT the dick problems started to arise (high e2?) and it was quite off putting as you can imagine....

Coming off cold turkey with no planned 'post cycle therapy' or whatever wasn't that bad at all for me...but the whole experience was far from ideal.

The 15# of weight gain from TRT has not come off one way or another.
Sure BF% might be a little different here or there....I understand that (water/glycogen vs fat vs muscle).
But all the same.

I would say overall it was a negative experience for me.

I think I just operate with low test levels. My mental problems are my own

[cole]

I had no dick problems before TRT; sex drive was always good.
About 3-4 month into TRT the dick problems started to arise (high e2?) and it was quite off putting as you can imagine....

interesting...my first go around last fall i ended up with the same dick issues around week 5 or 6, freaked out and quite immediately. apparantly that can be a side effect of high e2 or possibly cortisol. im back on at half the dose and giving it a 2nd try bc there are also some positives id like to be able to hold on to. but if i end up with the same problems as last time then ill know TRT just aint for me.

I think I just operate with low test levels.

this is very possible for me as well and likely for many others. which is why a number in itself is not really a good indication. everybody has different sensitivity.

thanks for sharing

[aurelius]

Probably. But if this treatment is out there, its easy and its cheap, and it makes you feel better on many levels, why not take advantage of it?
Just becasue you arent "sick" doesnt mean you cant benefit from it.

100% agree. And if someone 'feels' better in measurable ways like regular sleep patterns, stabilized mood...then it is likely their body has issues regulating hormone levels that might not reach the level of diagnosable. Everything exists on a continuum.

I am mainly speaking to those seeking out this treatment for performance enhancement. They should cycle anabolic steroids, HGH, and so forth.

[Hardartery]

...then things got a little out of hand and my anxiety went through the roof, moody like a teenager, and got ED (probably from estradiol going up along with T)"... Considering giving it another go this time with half the dose. Not sure if I want to subject myself to it again....

Was your estradiol levels measured prior/ during/ after TRT cycle to ascertain if it was excess E2? Have you discussed/ explored an AI alongside TRT if you have such data recorded?

No, I abruptly stopped the therapy and did not go back in for follow up labs. Looking back that was a mistake. My pre E2 levels were in the normal range. I am against the AI, it seems stupid to have to take something to counter something I am taking voluntarily. If anything, I would simply ask for a lower dose if my E2 were going up. I honestly think I was just given too high a dose and not enough time to adjust to it. I started at 180mg/wk. I am re-starting with 80mg/wk which is a joke I know but I would rather just titrate up very slowly until I know I am good. I have time.....

Elevated E2 manifests in bloat. The dose they put you in was almost certainly too high, and stopping cold turkey was a mistake. You get some craziness at first, not so much from high E2 as from having enough hormones floating around and you're not used to it anymore which is exacerbated by a high starting dose. The better starting dose is 80-100mg and titrate up, personally I do best at around 120-125mg a week.

[Hardartery]

I think what is missing from the discussion is abnormal physiology such as hypogonadism. To diagnose hypogonadism insurance companies require 3 tests in one week performed before 10 AM all below 150 ng/dl. The treatment protocols are for that. Consider that someone with abnormal physiology (hypogonadism):
--body has difficulty/cannot naturally reach homeostasis
--that without the body's natural ability to regulate and produce testosterone to stresses in real time that more overall artificial testosterone is required to achieve a similar effect
--TRT does not 'cure' an individual with hypogonadism. It only treats the symptoms. A person that artificially injects hormones will not operate like a normal, healthy individual.

Diagnosis is typically 2 or three labs BELOW RANGE. There is not a specific number because labs differ, it depends on the lab. I got prescribed by an endo based on two labs, and I was not looking for or interested in TRT at the time. Injecting hormones is just like injecting insulin for a type 1 diabetic. They ran all of the labs, MRI's and scans they could come up with in my case and no cause in particular could be determined to address, which unfortunately is the case for most men with the problem right now. It would be nice for medicine to progress to curing it.

[cole]

Elevated E2 manifests in bloat. The dose they put you in was almost certainly too high, and stopping cold turkey was a mistake. You get some craziness at first, not so much from high E2 as from having enough hormones floating around and you're not used to it anymore which is exacerbated by a high starting dose. The better starting dose is 80-100mg and titrate up, personally I do best at around 120-125mg a week.

I didnt have any bloat although my weight did skyrocket. I was on 180mg/wk so yeah i agree it was too high. i felt like a teenager haha. stopping cold turkey actually was nice bc for about 2 weeks i started to feel great as my T dropped back into a more tolerable range. then after a month of no T i was back to being a sloth again.

this time around i started at 80mg/wk and its going much better. im sure i will titrate as well.

Do you need an AI with your therapy?

[Hardartery]

Elevated E2 manifests in bloat. The dose they put you in was almost certainly too high, and stopping cold turkey was a mistake. You get some craziness at first, not so much from high E2 as from having enough hormones floating around and you're not used to it anymore which is exacerbated by a high starting dose. The better starting dose is 80-100mg and titrate up, personally I do best at around 120-125mg a week.

I didnt have any bloat although my weight did skyrocket. I was on 180mg/wk so yeah i agree it was too high. i felt like a teenager haha. stopping cold turkey actually was nice bc for about 2 weeks i started to feel great as my T dropped back into a more tolerable range. then after a month of no T i was back to being a sloth again.

this time around i started at 80mg/wk and its going much better. im sure i will titrate as well.

Do you need an AI with your therapy?

No AI. I very much bloated initially, and it depends on which ester how much for me. Cypionate turned me into the Michelin man for a while but Sustanon doesn't bloat me at all - not that you have that as an option probably. It's about waiting and letting things level out, the levels dropped slowly over time so you adjusted with it, but they are going back up kind of abruptly so you have to wait out the adjustment. An AI would likely crush your estrogen to near zero at TRT doses (Ask me how I know) which is way, way worse than what already happened to you.

[aurelius]

Diagnosis is typically 2 or three labs BELOW RANGE. There is not a specific number because labs differ, it depends on the lab

Attached the stated policies of Cigna (who I had) and United Health (who I have now). Cigna references normal laboratory reference values only. United Health states 300 ng/dL or lower than the normal laboratory reference value. I did this under Cigna about a year ago and was told by the provider it was 150 ng/dl to be considered low. And it was two tests. Maybe that is low in their reference range?

https://chk.static.cigna.com/assets/chc ... mplant.pdf
https://www.uhcprovider.com/content/dam ... herapy.pdf

Some reason I remember 3 tests...Oh...I remember now. Provider was rejecting all insurance unless they had the new 2 test standard. Insurance policy provides an exception for the old standard of 1 test but the provider didn't care. I had to go off TRT for a couple of months to retest. I got a new provider.

An AI would likely crush your estrogen to near zero at TRT doses (Ask me how I know) which is way, way worse than what already happened to you.

My estrogen is in normal ranges and I take 1 mg of anastrozole per week. I did start with half (0.5 mg) per week. What was your dosage? I also inject test twice weekly. That may make a difference. But I didn't have high estrogen when I was injecting once per week.

[mbasic]

My estrogen is in normal ranges and I take 1 mg of anastrozole per week.

IIRC,

almost everyone would say this is too much AI.

IIRC, the "clinics" are taking anastrozole (originally a estrogen "blocker" made for women with breast cancer issues/concerns/problems) and chopping them up into 1/4 tablets .... so 0.25 mg for men once a week, maybe 2x/week (0.5 mg) for special cases. That is, they don't make smaller tablets than 1 mg.

They are an off-label use for men. I don't think there is a single credible study or trial with men using AI/anastrozole for hormone therapy problems....because it wasn't made for that.

Just guessing here,....or "so the stories I've heard" .... actual doctor-doctors working with isurance companies MAY have some problems RX'ing off label stuff, at non standard doses etc.

Things like HGC and etc are also kinda offlabel also

YMMV and whatnot

[aurelius]

almost everyone would say this is too much AI.

Who is everyone? I can't find anything that follows your recommendations. The ones I do find are for juicers doing 0.5 mg every other day.

I have now been to two separate providers who both recommend 1 mg per week (the day after the injection) for a once per week injection. GoodRX has the price for 30 1 mg pills of anastrozole at ~$25. I don't think this is a windfall for the providers. And as I stated, my estrodial levels have been within norms for years on this protocol. Which was started because it was high after I started TRT.

Was hoping the insurance had the protocol...but found this tidbit for Cigna:
Hypogonadism: Guidelines from the American Urological Association (2018) note that clinicians should
use a total testosterone level below 300 ng/dL as a reasonable cut-off in support of the diagnosis of low
testosterone.7 The guidelines additionally note that a diagnosis of low testosterone should be made only
after two total testosterone measurements are taken on separate occasions with both conducted in an
early morning fashion. Clinical diagnosis should be made when patients have low testosterone levels
combined with signs and symptoms. The Endocrine Society guidelines on testosterone therapy in men
with hypogonadism (2018) recommend diagnosing hypogonadism in men with symptoms and signs of
testosterone deficiency and unequivocally and consistently low serum total testosterone and/or free
testosterone concentrations (when indicated)

Where they state to use 300 ng/dL as the start of the low range. So maybe they don't have to rely on the labs reference range or can provide the reference range? I don't know.

I looked into the bolded to see if I could answer our question regarding AI dosage. Didn't find it but maybe it is buried in this:

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/1 ... 15/4939465

And just a side note: drugs are used for purposes they were not originally intended all the time.

[cole]

I had to go off TRT for a couple of months to retest. I got a new provider.

I feel like the private clinics will work with you more than a PCP would, and not to mention they dont take insurance so you dont have to jump through hoops. I pay 115/mo, which is not very expensive considering they ship you all your supplies, coordinate and interpret regular labwork, and are available for you on demand. I would never bring this to my PCP

[aurelius]

I feel like the private clinics will work with you more than a PCP would, and not to mention they dont take insurance so you dont have to jump through hoops. I pay 115/mo, which is not very expensive considering they ship you all your supplies, coordinate and interpret regular labwork, and are available for you on demand. I would never bring this to my PCP

That is sweet. What is the service you use?

I'm at $100 a month ($25 a visit per insurance) at the brick and mortar clinic I go to. That covers everything. From injections (I take one home), anastrozole, labs, and so forth. It would cost more than twice as much for out of pocket.

It was an insurance thing that drove the 2 test requirement. But I was already fed up with that provider. Terrible service. They were a chop shop I only went to as they were close to my office and took my insurance.

[mbasic]

almost everyone would say this is too much AI.

Who is everyone? I can't find anything that follows your recommendations. The ones I do find are for juicers doing 0.5 mg every other day.

I have now been to two separate providers who both recommend 1 mg per week (the day after the injection) for a once per week injection. GoodRX has the price for 30 1 mg pills of anastrozole at ~$25.

hey man, not trying to say you are really doing something wrong or anything, but just letting you know what's common in the practice.....and you should be aware of some of this stuff. Most doctors are sorta clueless on much of the science.

RE: "normal e2". Those cited e2 'normal' ranges ('reference ranges') are from gen.pop data from dudes who are not on TRT. Most guys on TRT, their new testosterone levels will be much higher than even if their old 'healthy' normal ranges. Especially the first few days after injection (peak), and then, still higher (than say when they were younger) the days before next injection (the trough "levels"). The prevailing idea is those E2 levels could stand to be a little higher if your new test level is WAY higher now (than ever) so the ratio of E2 to test are somewhat in balance.

And just a side note: drugs are used for purposes they were not originally intended all the time.

Right, in cases like Viagra, it was originally intended for HBP treatment.
But was found to work get for dicks.
But then they had a lot of safety and baseline data from those original HBP trials.
And then did more trials to specifically to get it clear for a dick-medicine.
BUT WHAT IS KIND OF IRONIC, is as much as the TRT clinics get demonized for fleecing dudes, and/or being steroid distributors .... they collect, keep , and use TONS of data on/from their patients: blood results, dosages, weekly interviews, etc. And they can operate outside of the bounds of insurance and doctor protocol. A good clinic has a better handle of this stuff than most doctors, and perhaps, endocrinologists (on average). But alas, some are shite.

I'm not 99% sure on this, as things could have changes in the last few years, you can't much if anything in the way of trials/studies on AI being used on MEN for the purposes of controlling E2 .... especially in a population of men on TRT. Its like steroids or avanvar .... they ain't going to do studies on stuff that's used off label, etc. but in wierd cases. Like, you might find a study on avanar used on full body burn victims to fend off atrophy while bedridden for a year..... IDK if there much to be learned there for Joe Gym Rat Blow.

Also, if you study what the E2 measurement is, that's just the serum component that floating around in your blood, not what's in the tissues. In men, the E2 is made in the cells of various tissues all over the body, mostly converted from test. In women, the sex organs make a substantial portion of it, for the purpose to circulate around in the blood, to therefore be taken up by the various tissues. So what the serumn levels even mean or show specifically to the two different sexes are .... different and mostly unknown in men. Sure, women are higher, but how the E2 is made, distributed, and used by tissues is quite a bit different.

Also, different tissues require (or benefit from) different levels of intercellular E2.
Heart requires/benefits from different amounts than say your joints.
AI crashes all that across the board system wide sorta ubiquitously.

Also, many purported E2 symptoms are simply mistaken for real-fucken-high testosterone symptoms: e.g. dick problems, bloating, etc.

[cole]

What is the service you use?

I use Wittmer Rejuvination Clinic. I live in Colorado. WRC is in Missouri. I have only ever done a couple zooms and phone calls. If I had to physically go in person on a regular basis and let someone inject me, I would never do this. Not that important. But the extreme ease and convenience and low cost are what made me decide to give it a try. I will say the NP's are more concerned with your well being and how things are going than the Drs at this clinic. The Docs just get on the zoom and are like "do you want this or not?" and spend about 30 seconds with you. If you have concerns then best to speak to the nurses.

[aurelius]

hey man, not trying to say you are really doing something wrong or anything, but just letting you know what's common in the practice.....and you should be aware of some of this stuff. Most doctors are sorta clueless on much of the science.

THEN YOU SAY THIS

I'm not 99% sure on this, as things could have changes in the last few years, you can't much if anything in the way of trials/studies on AI being used on MEN for the purposes of controlling E2 .... especially in a population of men on TRT. Its like steroids or avanvar .... they ain't going to do studies on stuff that's used off label, etc. but in wierd cases. Like, you might find a study on avanar used on full body burn victims to fend off atrophy while bedridden for a year..... IDK if there much to be learned there for Joe Gym Rat Blow.

You have made 2 arguments from authority "Everyone knows" and "common practice" while providing no supporting documentation. Then go on to say that there is no documentation. Then how does 'everyone know' what 'common practice' is? I was able to find some documentation of AI studies on TRT patients but it is behind pay walls so didn't post it.

If I am having to blindly place trust in someone, it will be in the medical practice that specializes in this treatment following the guidelines set by the Endocrine society and national level insurers versus internet 'knowledge'. Are there bad providers? Of course. Are all providers bad? Of course not.

I think there is a lot of misinformation regarding this treatment which is my main reason for posting in this thread to share my 8-9 years of experience on TRT. For some individuals I believe it can be life changing. It is for me. But it is a major intervention into how the body functions which results in significant negatives and it is not a miracle fountain of youth.

[Hardartery]

Diagnosis is typically 2 or three labs BELOW RANGE. There is not a specific number because labs differ, it depends on the lab

Attached the stated policies of Cigna (who I had) and United Health (who I have now). Cigna references normal laboratory reference values only. United Health states 300 ng/dL or lower than the normal laboratory reference value. I did this under Cigna about a year ago and was told by the provider it was 150 ng/dl to be considered low. And it was two tests. Maybe that is low in their reference range?

https://chk.static.cigna.com/assets/chc ... mplant.pdf
https://www.uhcprovider.com/content/dam ... herapy.pdf

Some reason I remember 3 tests...Oh...I remember now. Provider was rejecting all insurance unless they had the new 2 test standard. Insurance policy provides an exception for the old standard of 1 test but the provider didn't care. I had to go off TRT for a couple of months to retest. I got a new provider.

An AI would likely crush your estrogen to near zero at TRT doses (Ask me how I know) which is way, way worse than what already happened to you.

My estrogen is in normal ranges and I take 1 mg of anastrozole per week. I did start with half (0.5 mg) per week. What was your dosage? I also inject test twice weekly. That may make a difference. But I didn't have high estrogen when I was injecting once per week.

Sorry for the late response, I am out of town on Thursdays and Fridays and don't take the laptop with me. Because I'm generally involved with concrete until late every day and it's just not a setup conducive to getting online anyway. I have been BC/BS for a long time now, my "Residence" is technically SC, and Cigna and United are less than good options there for the times I am actually in the country. I did rather a lit if reading and research when I started, the bottle of testgel sat in a drawer waiting for me to decide what I actually wanted to do versus what the endo was offering. The gel sucks, and is not available most places where I spend the most time, so I ruled it out right away and then spent some time deciding if I really wanted to make the leap. Based on what I learned then, early 2018, I started on injections.

For readability I am making another paragraph. I started on a dose based off of bad advice and misunderstanding. 200 mg a week of cypionate (Actually enanthate the first two weeks). I blew up with water, and promptly took (More bad but well intentioned advice from someone) an anastrozole. I immediately pulled/strained/jacked up 3 separate muscles/tendons in two light gym sessions and felt like hell. I cut it to 1/4 pill, and went and got labs. My E2 was unreadable even at 1/4 pill. It ran slightly high with nothing but I bloated a lot. I rode it out and now it's fine. I still bloat a little if I'm in the US long enough to have to resort to the cypionate instead of sustanon but it's very minor now and probably not visible now that I have a beard. Most guys I know and have talked to - TRT and other doses for other reasons (I know a lot of guys who do or did use PED's) - have a similar reaction to anastrozole and really need to be running some monster doses to not utterly crush the E2. That's why most of them use Tamoxifen/nolvadex and not anastrozole. Anastrozole is a system wide suppression, tamoxifen only inhabits breast tissue so it's good for gyno issues and PCT. If you can run it and suffer no ill effects, have at it. Everyone else should be wary initially.

[aurelius]

Sorry for the late response, I am out of town on Thursdays and Fridays and don't take the laptop with me. Because I'm generally involved with concrete until late every day and it's just not a setup conducive to getting online anyway. I have been BC/BS for a long time now, my "Residence" is technically SC, and Cigna and United are less than good options there for the times I am actually in the country. I did rather a lit if reading and research when I started, the bottle of testgel sat in a drawer waiting for me to decide what I actually wanted to do versus what the endo was offering. The gel sucks, and is not available most places where I spend the most time, so I ruled it out right away and then spent some time deciding if I really wanted to make the leap. Based on what I learned then, early 2018, I started on injections.

For readability I am making another paragraph. I started on a dose based off of bad advice and misunderstanding. 200 mg a week of cypionate (Actually enanthate the first two weeks). I blew up with water, and promptly took (More bad but well intentioned advice from someone) an anastrozole. I immediately pulled/strained/jacked up 3 separate muscles/tendons in two light gym sessions and felt like hell. I cut it to 1/4 pill, and went and got labs. My E2 was unreadable even at 1/4 pill. It ran slightly high with nothing but I bloated a lot. I rode it out and now it's fine. I still bloat a little if I'm in the US long enough to have to resort to the cypionate instead of sustanon but it's very minor now and probably not visible now that I have a beard. Most guys I know and have talked to - TRT and other doses for other reasons (I know a lot of guys who do or did use PED's) - have a similar reaction to anastrozole and really need to be running some monster doses to not utterly crush the E2. That's why most of them use Tamoxifen/nolvadex and not anastrozole. Anastrozole is a system wide suppression, tamoxifen only inhabits breast tissue so it's good for gyno issues and PCT. If you can run it and suffer no ill effects, have at it. Everyone else should be wary initially.

Thank you for sharing your experience. It could be I just tolerate anastrozole well.

I started TRT and pushed it up to 220 mg once a week based on bro advice but that was hot. I was agitated all the time. My provider caught it (I should have energy, not feel like I need to go 100 mph). Slowly brought it down to 180 but I would noticeably fade the last two days. Settled on 200 mg once per week which was slightly hot early in the cycle but I didn't fade. I'm injecting 100 mg twice per week now. I'm not getting that huge peak from 200 mg once per week but my test showed me at above 1000 total T (which would have been 3 days past my 2nd injection). Meaning I'm running above 1000 total T all the time now. I think I'm going to titrate down moving forward but the lesson I learned is small changes over a long period of time. Gonna try 95 mg twice weekly and see how I feel after 6-8 weeks.

[Hardartery]

Sorry for the late response, I am out of town on Thursdays and Fridays and don't take the laptop with me. Because I'm generally involved with concrete until late every day and it's just not a setup conducive to getting online anyway. I have been BC/BS for a long time now, my "Residence" is technically SC, and Cigna and United are less than good options there for the times I am actually in the country. I did rather a lit if reading and research when I started, the bottle of testgel sat in a drawer waiting for me to decide what I actually wanted to do versus what the endo was offering. The gel sucks, and is not available most places where I spend the most time, so I ruled it out right away and then spent some time deciding if I really wanted to make the leap. Based on what I learned then, early 2018, I started on injections.

For readability I am making another paragraph. I started on a dose based off of bad advice and misunderstanding. 200 mg a week of cypionate (Actually enanthate the first two weeks). I blew up with water, and promptly took (More bad but well intentioned advice from someone) an anastrozole. I immediately pulled/strained/jacked up 3 separate muscles/tendons in two light gym sessions and felt like hell. I cut it to 1/4 pill, and went and got labs. My E2 was unreadable even at 1/4 pill. It ran slightly high with nothing but I bloated a lot. I rode it out and now it's fine. I still bloat a little if I'm in the US long enough to have to resort to the cypionate instead of sustanon but it's very minor now and probably not visible now that I have a beard. Most guys I know and have talked to - TRT and other doses for other reasons (I know a lot of guys who do or did use PED's) - have a similar reaction to anastrozole and really need to be running some monster doses to not utterly crush the E2. That's why most of them use Tamoxifen/nolvadex and not anastrozole. Anastrozole is a system wide suppression, tamoxifen only inhabits breast tissue so it's good for gyno issues and PCT. If you can run it and suffer no ill effects, have at it. Everyone else should be wary initially.

Thank you for sharing your experience. It could be I just tolerate anastrozole well.

I started TRT and pushed it up to 220 mg once a week based on bro advice but that was hot. I was agitated all the time. My provider caught it (I should have energy, not feel like I need to go 100 mph). Slowly brought it down to 180 but I would noticeably fade the last two days. Settled on 200 mg once per week which was slightly hot early in the cycle but I didn't fade. I'm injecting 100 mg twice per week now. I'm not getting that huge peak from 200 mg once per week but my test showed me at above 1000 total T (which would have been 3 days past my 2nd injection). Meaning I'm running above 1000 total T all the time now. I think I'm going to titrate down moving forward but the lesson I learned is small changes over a long period of time. Gonna try 95 mg twice weekly and see how I feel after 6-8 weeks.

I have run 180 a week, 200 a week, 250 a week for two weeks, currently at 125 a week which is not "Optimized" on the labs but just above mid-range at trough - and feels better than the other levels. If I was just in it for performance and wanted to push the envelope I would run 250 a week and damn the torpedoes and then blast at 500 for stretches. But, I have a good idea what that would do to my numbers (RBC and hemoglobin in particular) and that isn't why I am on TRT to begin with. I really felt zero difference between 180 and 200, and feel only slightly better at 125 a week but it brings my blood work in line so nobody freaks out. I will say that different esters hit different, and 250 a week enanthate would quickly make me a large monster of a guy based on two weeks on it.

[aurelius]

I have run 180 a week, 200 a week, 250 a week for two weeks, currently at 125 a week which is not "Optimized" on the labs but just above mid-range at trough - and feels better than the other levels. If I was just in it for performance and wanted to push the envelope I would run 250 a week and damn the torpedoes and then blast at 500 for stretches. But, I have a good idea what that would do to my numbers (RBC and hemoglobin in particular) and that isn't why I am on TRT to begin with. I really felt zero difference between 180 and 200, and feel only slightly better at 125 a week but it brings my blood work in line so nobody freaks out. I will say that different esters hit different, and 250 a week enanthate would quickly make me a large monster of a guy based on two weeks on it.

Provider put my on a 90 and 100 mg injections twice a week versus 95 and 95. I will see how that feels after a 6-8 weeks. On the AI side I'm going to do 0.5 mg of anastrozole the day after each injection.