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mgil
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Training Forum Quotes HERE

#1

Post by mgil » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:03 am

This is intended to be the collection of training knowledge bombs that get dropped by various members.

Include their name in the quote and context as needed. I’ll start this off with the next post.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#2

Post by mgil » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:05 am

KDW wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:38 pmYour muscles don't know you are pulling sumo versus conventional, they just know that they have work to do to stabilize your spine and they have to adapt.
Regarding conversion of a lifter from conventional pulls to sumo.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#3

Post by laikabear » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:31 am

Chebass88 wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:25 pm It is pretty easy to become a negative asshole - lifting is a hobby, and being miserable about a hobby isn't worth it.
I wrote this one in my training log. :)

PS, good thread!

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#4

Post by Kregna » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:26 am

laikabear wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:31 am
Chebass88 wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:25 pm It is pretty easy to become a negative asshole - lifting is a hobby, and being miserable about a hobby isn't worth it.
I wrote this one in my training log. :)

PS, good thread!
Indeed. I did a strongman comp in the summer with guys from my gym (who I mostly didn't know at the time). I was added to their whatsapp group and find myself arguing with them every few days. They talk shit about other people, put people down, post nasty crude things... They're gonna mock me for leaving but sick of reading their toxic little messages all day. It's unpleasant being around negative people all the time

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#5

Post by mgil » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:33 am

Hanley wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:54 pm I love these two quotes:
OCG wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:30 pm2. "Hip drive" can also be cued as "leg drive" or "using your quads". It's simply a cue intended to counteract the chest/bar drive and keep the torso angle fixed out of the bottom. I feel like a proper "chest drive" is severely underrated and under discussed around certain parts, but that's another topic. As to what degree of back angle loss is acceptable, that's a bit more of a squishy thing I think. Perhaps we can take bar speed or smoothness of the lift? If you start learning forwards enough the bar slows, it's bad?
KDW wrote: Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:39 pmYou literally want your sacrum to skull to locked in as one unit.
Regarding the first: I think OCG is right on. "Hip Drive", "Chest up" etc, etc seem to all correct something regarding relative rates of opening at the hip and knee joints vs rate of vertical bar displacement. I'm too dumb to articulate what the ideal relationship in the rates should be. I might be completely off base, but I think I intuitively look for jacked up rates of joint opening and bar displacement when cueing "hips" or "chest".

Regarding the second: Yes! Once a lifter gets the basics down, torso rigidity is of prime importance (it's so important that its mention demands italics and bold font). I don't think it's possible to overstate the importance of an absolutely rigid torso. It's also incredibly difficult to coach. I'll try to tease out some cues for 1) upper back isometric contraction and 2) valsalva.

For now, I'll simply repeat what I've said before: the 30-50 seconds of trunk bracing in a squat set should rank among the most taxing volitional efforts of your life. Literally. Every time. (I fail at achieving this on almost every set). I think every major breakthrough I've had with press, dead and squat mechanics has started with an ever more rigid torso. In brief: if it helps, replace the oft-repeated "Tight, tight, tight" with "most intense volitional effort of my life*".


* I don't think the knee and hip extension in a squat are "volitional effort". Muscle spindles stretch, motor units are appropriately recruited (or if fatigued....not); there's an automatic quality to hip and knee extension. But the bracing in a squat (the upper back isometric contraction and valsalva) is pure, unrelenting intention.

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#6

Post by cole » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:37 am

I think the quote by @Hanley about torso rigidity and keeping sacrum-skull one stiff unit and all that about intentionally keeping lumbar extension priority even over hip/knee ext is probably the most important lesson I've learned since starting strength training.

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#7

Post by Farback » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:49 am

As I say to myself at the fire hall gym, “well, it’s not going to fucking pick itself up.”

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#8

Post by d0uevenlift » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:42 pm

I used to stress over numbers at the gym all the time. Downward trends in my e1RM because of my shitty sleep and recovery would stress me out even more. Looking back at it all, it wasn't ever really that bad.

I told Izzy once that I was stressing out over hitting my planned weights (since I train with RPE) some time last fall, and he said, "You'll either get it, or you won't. It's not that big of a deal."

That really stuck with me for some reason. I know some people get stressed or nervous or anxious about big weights or a lot of volume, or both, but now I just tell myself, "You'll either get it, or you won't." NBD.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#9

Post by unruhschuh » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:18 pm

mgil wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:43 pm Like everything else in strength training, titration is key. If you're resting 8 minutes between sets now, try for 7m30s next week, and 7 minutes the week after that, until your down to an interval that cannot be improved on.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#10

Post by PatrickDB » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:04 pm

Handlebars wrote: Here's my Mint Chocolate Chip:

Hypertrophy:
about 40 reps at 70% (chunked into sets of 4 or 5)

power:

warmup
2@70%
2@75%
2@80%
then 2 singles at 85%

Strenth:

4x3 @80%

Add some weight across the board each week
Put this on the Instagram, tyia.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#11

Post by Hanley » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:52 pm

PatrickDB wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:04 pm
Handlebars wrote: Here's my Mint Chocolate Chip:

Hypertrophy:
about 40 reps at 70% (chunked into sets of 4 or 5)

power:

warmup
2@70%
2@75%
2@80%
then 2 singles at 85%

Strenth:

4x3 @80%

Add some weight across the board each week
Put this on the Instagram, tyia.
Aight.

You could use the same template for bench or press, but add accessory work [choose from dips, chins, pullovers, curls, etc]

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#12

Post by Murelli » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:33 am

KDW wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:56 pm I think I said this on a thread back on SS that I think was deleted but, I think everyone can do a narrow sumo. Everyone cannot conventional pull correctly. Just really no reason for a narrow sumo to be the go to lift. It forces proper form, because it is much harder to break the ground without having sound mechanics. Because proper mechanics are more "required" for the narrow sumo, it helps the lifter to learn how to actually use the hips and what this feels like. This transfers to squats and other hip extension type lifts really well. More often than not, I see novice (and experienced) conventional pullers lift with their glutes and hamstrings checked out and lower back doing most of the work. It is not usual to see someone deadlift like Mike T. I think there is something anthropometric going on there. Anyway, I don't really care if one has a larger moment arm over another if the longer moment arm is being acted upon by concentric and eccentric erector contractions instead of hamstring/adductor/gluteus concentric contractions with isometric erector contractions. It is just fucking you up over time, and I guess for some people that's cool. OK. I'm done.
Hodge.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#13

Post by Mkgillman » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:37 am

ch wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:53 am
Never forget that Reddit’s prime demographic is men under 25. Pretend you are getting advice from a teenager in the gym every time you read a Reddit post from someone you don’t know.
I would expand this to include any other information from unknown forum posters.

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#14

Post by Nermin » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:51 am

mgil wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:33 am Wut Hanley said
This cannot be understated.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#15

Post by Wilhelm » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:49 pm

Hanley wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:25 pm
MattimusMaximus wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:00 pmSo would you say that optimal is minimal tonnage at higher intensity, medium tonnage at the intermediate zone, and highest tonnage at the 70% zone? I think that's basically what you programmed for me.
Nah, I wouldn't say that.

I'd say optimal is max 48-72 hour tonnage at 65%-75%, max 48-72 hour tonnage at 75%ish-85% and max 48-72 hour recoverable tonnage at 85%+. Fatigue doesn't scale linearly with intensity, so you've a fuckton more volume at 70% than 85%+. This general 48-72 hour rule doesn't apply to peaking and test weeks, because you're working at such high intensities that 72-hour recovery might not be possible.


MattimusMaximus wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:00 pmSorry if this should be obvious... just trying to get all the pieced info from different threads and putting it all together in my head movies. So volume @70% increases muscle size (hypertrophy) which increases strength potential? Then 80% for triples increases that strength? Then 85-90%+ is testing/skill?
Yeah. "Strength" is really a nice combo of hypertrophy + "neuro & strength skill". "Neuro" sounds more pretentious than I want it to. What I mean is that 80% represents the probable threshold at which you're training the near-entire pool of IIx fibers on every single rep done outside of fatigue. "Training" them means not only "growing them" but also improving shit like frequency of twitches.

85% offers moar better training of the neuro elements and also offers the training of "volitional shit" like bracing, anxiety management/arousal, self-cueing, etc. "Volitional" also sounds more pretentious than I want. Meh.

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Re: Training Forum Quotes HERE

#16

Post by PatrickDB » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:04 pm

Hanley wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:06 pm
cole wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:35 am I may have missed this but when doing a hps are there specific lifts that work better for each day? I'm assuming you want comp. Lifts on your power days and assistance lifts on hypertrophy day ?
[TAKE 2 with rant warning]

Why is the default assumption that we even need variations? My version of HPS manages fatigue by dosing each session carefully (so that I'm largely recovered within 48 hours (upper and squats) or 72 hours (main pull). Any residual fatigue from a session is mitigated by the H P S pattern ("power" is not fatiguing...so if I've got residual fatigue from a hypertrophy session..that's fine; power adds very little fatigue and boosts MPS a bit). "Strength" is very fatiguing, but I've got 72 hours of recovery there as a catch. "Hypertrophy" is usual "novel" volume for intermediate peep, so DOMS sucks for 2-3 weeks, but it gets better.

Judiciously-used and justified variations can be incredibly useful** (and necessary when using really high intensities), but we've entered a very, very odd period of "baroque-programming"...complexity for its own sake. I think this trend in programming sucks. And lots of peeps straight outta novice or Texas Method are weak, tired and making little technical progress on the main lifts because of baroque-programming.

I understand that doing 75%+ of total volume via primary movements might not be fun. But I think there's beauty in hyper-refining motor patterns. And setting new lifetime PRs.

** if a powerlifting coach is actively programming, monitoring, prescribing variations...that's a different thing altogether [ie KOTJ prescribing tempo squats or Manveer's coaching from Mark Robb]. I'm talking about the arbitrary assignment of variation with no articulated training purpose.

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#17

Post by KOTJ » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:27 pm

"this is my last post"

- Michael Scott

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#18

Post by cwd » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:23 am

michael wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:05 am
PatrickDB wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:50 am Can you give me 48-hour recoverable volume equivalents, in total reps, for 65%, 70%, 75%, 80%, 85%, and 90%?
I copied these from a thread in Egypt. I think they were starting points.

30 reps @70%
25 reps @75%
15ish @80%
5-8 @85%

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#19

Post by mbasic » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:11 pm

I remember when the discussion came up about those who can't throttle down their "enthusisum" . . and therefore can't RPE, and/or leave one in the tank, etc . . . . or what personality type was best suited for RPE programming"
Manveer: "meathead is gonna meathead"
this stuck with me to this day

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#20

Post by cwd » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:26 am

Hamburgerfan wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:13 pm Excessive simplicity can be seductive too. It's a very appealing thought that everything worth knowing about training can be learned from a single source. In a world of conflicting and confusing ideas on how to train, it's very tempting to allow yourself to disregard anything unfamiliar or hard to understand.
(from the thread discussing Rip/Baker/bradford article that sorta-defends TM from Feigenbaum's critique)

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