Guns and Shit

[DoctorWho]

I had the same question, which I put to my son. Same advice but we didn't get into the manual safety.

Read some advice for new pistol owners: a manual safety is more dangerous because it gives a false sense of security, discourages discipline, can lead to dumb mistakes, etc. Thoughts?

[DoctorWho]

Worth pointing out that in general, duty to retreat laws are actually quite old, and are not some recent reaction to somebody's perception that self-defense is too easily claimed to get out of an unjustified killing.

Then later on liberal prosecutors and judges used it to ruin America by protecting criminals. That's how you get Stand Your Ground laws.

If I remember it right, common law developed over hundreds of years with two competing doctrines. When US states were formed, some adopted the castle doctrine and some the duty to retreat. Guessing that stand-your-ground laws probably on the rise.

The case of the guy on the ladder case is a good one to think through. If he's merely a heartbroken ex-boyfriend, then it seems extreme to kill him by pushing him off the ladder. Outcome the same under either set of rules. Once the knife comes out, SHOULD it be lawful to push him off the ladder? Reasonable people can disagree.

[5hout]

I had the same question, which I put to my son. Same advice but we didn't get into the manual safety.

Read some advice for new pistol owners: a manual safety is more dangerous because it gives a false sense of security, discourages discipline, can lead to dumb mistakes, etc. Thoughts?

The ire in this post is not directed at you.


This is very common, and complete and utter nonsense based on people being fucking idiots. IMO.

How do actual negligent discharges occur? Trigger got pulled holstering gun. Gun in a purse. Gun in a glovebox. Gun in a range bag, but lose ammo is rolling around. Gun dropped and a stick goes through the trigger guard.

Only in the imagination do manual safeties cause or lead to negligent discharges occur, but in the real world guns go off b/c something pushed on the trigger and somehow glock convinced people that a 2nd trigger built into the trigger is a "safety". This is on par with (again, IMO) "if you carry a gun between 4 o'clock and 7 o'clock you're risking being paralyzed if you fall!" for "shit that has never (or almost never happened)" yet somehow has become "common wisdom".

I'll wrap this screed up by saying: People that are stupid, lazy and dangerous are going to be stupid, lazy and dangerous whatever combination of safety devices you give them. Arguing "less safety devices will make people more careful" is literally, not figuratively, arguing to not wear helmets on bikes/motorcycles, not have seatbelts in cars, and not have GFIs in bathrooms. If you want to live that way, fine, but I'll use some basic safety devices.

My ideal pistol would have a thumb safety, grip safety, decocking lever to permit hammer down/round in chamber carry, double action cock and fire after decocked and be drop safe. I also include a paraphrased quote from Ruark's grandfather "You've got all the time in the world as you draw and aim the gun to put your thumb on the safety". If the thumb safety is too hard to operate get a large 1911 style thumb safety that comfortably locates your thumb during shooting.

ARGH. This advice just gets me going. BRB going to bench without safeties b/c they'll just make me bitch out and not finish reps.

EDIT: I couldn't leave well enough alone. The odds you need your carried gun are very low. The odds a holster will fail or you'll realize you're about to go in a prohibited place and need to store the gun or you'll take your pants off and someone will call your name and your gun will be in the holster and a kid runs in the room or you set it down mid-sentence and the IBS flares up or any other life happens scenarios are wildly more likely. A safety that is disengaged by operating a trigger is just a fucking weird 2nd trigger.

[mikeylikey]

A safety that is disengaged by operating a trigger is just a fucking weird 2nd trigger.

I mean the whole post was good but this part right here takes the cake.

[mikeylikey]

I casually follow some of the gun and self defense channels on the youtubes. You know what you just never seem to see examples of? Self defense engagements where:

a) defender has a gun in play and loses the fight because he had the 'wrong' type of gun, and
b) defender would clearly have won the fight with a 'better' (more ammo, safety/no safety, etc) gun.

You know what you do see, a lot? Defensive gun use followed by a lengthy trial where the brand, model, capacity, color, or other 'scary' aspect of the gun is a material issue, or at least the attempt to make it so.

By this logic, if you want to worry about the thing most likely to actually matter, the perfect gun is a pink-handled silver .38 special hammerless. I am only partially being facetious.


ETA: I am ?obviously? talking about non cop-involved situations here...

[BostonRugger]

That's fun considering the increased prevalence of cop videos where they use a Glock 17 with an RMR and a surefire attached.


ETA: Don't you sneak edit me, Mikey! Don't you dare!

[mbasic]

I casually follow some of the gun and self defense channels on the youtubes. You know what you just never seem to see examples of? Self defense engagements where:

a) defender has a gun in play and loses the fight because he had the 'wrong' type of gun, and
b) defender would clearly have won the fight with a 'better' (more ammo, safety/no safety, etc) gun.

You know what you do see, a lot? Defensive gun use followed by a lengthy trial where the brand, model, capacity, color, or other 'scary' aspect of the gun is a material issue, or at least the attempt to make it so.

By this logic, if you want to worry about the thing most likely to actually matter, the perfect gun is a pink-handled silver .38 special hammerless. I am only partially being facetious.


ETA: I am ?obviously? talking about non cop-involved situations here...

Its not the primary factor in my decision for a shotgun for home defense (currently)...but it checks a lot of those boxes up there^
1 - something a whole lot better than nothing (good enough to shoot some angry dude off of a ladder).
2 - its just a (slightly modified) hunting shotgun with a wood stock. Its not black, or "assault", or "tactical"-anything.

But back to my original query, I think the wife wants something more portable, concealable, and perhaps something she could use.

[BostonRugger]

But back to my original query, I think the wife wants something more portable, concealable, and perhaps something she could use.

Sig Sauer P365X or Glock 43x.

Thin frame and short slides. Good for daily carry, but grip long enough to get your pinky on there. The glock is slightly bigger. Capacity is 10+1 or 12+1. 9mm.

[gtl]

But back to my original query, I think the wife wants something more portable, concealable, and perhaps something she could use.

Sig Sauer P365X or Glock 43x.

Thin frame and short slides. Good for daily carry, but grip long enough to get your pinky on there. The glock is slightly bigger. Capacity is 10+1 or 12+1. 9mm.

Was going to suggest the same. I have a P365. I shoot the 43x better, but with young kids in the house, I like the manual safety on the P365 (idc about the whole argument against manual safeties, even if its holstered and/or locked in the night stand safe). You might also check out the S&W Shield.

If you plan on carrying, ever, get a gun that is easy to carry - or you'll never carry it.
If you want a safe queen, this doesn't matter - but find something your wife will be able to shoot.

[mikeylikey]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... -rcna39623

This is kinda bullshit.

Does anybody believe that if Hunter Brandon was not the president's son, millions of dollars would have been spent digging through old files to established he briefly owned a gun 7 odd years ago, from which fact no harm came to anybody, while he was also using crack.

That's aside from the (imho compelling) argument that the drug question on the 4473 is arguably unconstitutional under Bruen, or that the entire scheme of federal narcotic prohibition is evil, stupid, and unconstitutional under *The Constitution*.

[5hout]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... -rcna39623

This is kinda bullshit.

Does anybody believe that if Hunter Brandon was not the president's son, millions of dollars would have been spent digging through old files to established he briefly owned a gun 7 odd years ago, from which fact no harm came to anybody, while he was also using crack.

No, but I'm not sure I think that's a fair summary of the case. I might summarize it more like "Would I expect someone facing federal charges for a variety of tax evasion related offenses, who also committed a federal gun felony during that time period (with fairly rock solid evidence for the gun charges) to be charged as part of pressure to force him to cop a higher plea than he would otherwise?"

To which the answer is: "Yes, of course, that's exactly how prosecutors work with people who aren't copping easy pleas". I'd also note 4 other significant issues.

1. Hunter Biden's lawyer is in public arguing that prosecutors remain bound by plea bargain that wasn't approved nor finalized, which is a silly argument. This is unlikely to promote "let's do some pre-trial diversion, pay penalties and walk away". I think (in an ideal world) prosecutors should act in the interest of justice, and not pride/punishing people who try and play the media against them, but in the world we live in making this argument is almost guaranteed to bring some revenge charging/threats of revenge charging.

2. The attempt to incorporate-by-reference an broad release of criminal liability that the judge didn't care for made the prosecutors look dumb. Again, making prosecutors look dumb in public is a great way for anyone to get charges.

3. The bizzaro world secret service involvement in the initial stages of the investigation (if you say replace "secret service" with "state police" or "county sheriff protecting a relative") would also increase the odds they bring some kind of charges. It's one thing to lie on the form, get rid of the gun stupidly. But then when an officer of the law attempts/does step in to interfere, you're just upping the stakes and likelihood of charges.

4. The proof of the felony being so public, regardless of who did it, makes charges more likely. I mean, first it's not like they have to investigate much. Second, they look like dumbies not even getting pre-trial diversion agreed to (which, for the other reasons above, fell through).

So taken as a whole I think it's fair to say, as a multifactor analysis, charges are wildly more likely in this case than a random private person who does lies on a 4473.

[Hanley]

But back to my original query, I think the wife wants something more portable, concealable, and perhaps something she could use.

Sig Sauer P365X or Glock 43x.

Thin frame and short slides. Good for daily carry, but grip long enough to get your pinky on there. The glock is slightly bigger. Capacity is 10+1 or 12+1. 9mm.

Yeah. Try these out. I have/love a P365XL.

[Hanley]

Read some advice for new pistol owners: a manual safety is more dangerous because it gives a false sense of security, discourages discipline, can lead to dumb mistakes, etc. Thoughts?

Eh. I don’t buy that.

But I’ll fucking never have a manual safety on a carry weapon. I’m faster without the safety and choose to bias risk to handling vice tactical efficacy.

[editor’s note: Tactical John also rode a motorcycle without a helmet today]

[my note: the editor’s a cunt]

[cgeorg]

[editor’s note: Tactical John also rode a motorcycle without a helmet today]

While carrying a non-safetied firearm??!?!?

[BostonRugger]

[editor’s note: Tactical John also rode a motorcycle without a helmet today]

[my note: the editor’s a cunt]

Did you wear a heart rate monitor during the ride?

[DoctorWho]

[editor’s note: Tactical John also rode a motorcycle without a helmet today]

[my note: the editor’s a cunt]

Did you wear a heart rate monitor during the ride?

This thread is straight-up gold.

[mbasic]

This hit me hard .... because of the kids-sports theme to it. Kinda belongs here because: GUNS!

Basically, a dad shot his son's youth football coach for lack of playing time.

Shaquille Latimore, 30, said the parent first confronted him several weeks ago. A feud ensued, and it ended with the parent shooting Latimore several times Tuesday night in front of the team of 9- and 10-year-olds.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... d1cab.html

It gets better (more sad): in the article, the coach who got shot said he just didn't happen to have his own gun on him that day ... "its a rough neighborhood"....so he normally 'carries'... and then said he would have defended himself had he had his gun still on him.

[mbasic]

Baldwin indicted

[aurelius]

Baldwin indicted

True but meh. It is some 4th degree felony involuntary manslaughter charge* which has a maximum sentence of 18 months. My guess: this pleads out to a misdemeanor with no jail time.

*The grand jury indicted on two charges: “total disregard or indifference for the safety of others” and "the negligent use of a firearm" He can only be convicted of one.

[DanCR]

As previously noted many pages back, I'm very much a newbie to guns generally (at the time, I purchased a shotgun, which I keep up in New York and is mainly for shooting clays), so please excuse this being a not particularly significant entry. I'm signed up for Louisiana's concealed carry course this Friday and, since they prefer you to bring your own pistol even if you don't know a damn thing, today I purchased a SIG Sauer P365 XL. Excited to complete the course, get some education, and practice with it.